Smacking children can affect schooling Smacking children can affect schooling Smacking children can affect schooling Smacking children can affect schooling

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MeanBean, I don't knock other people en masse on the basis of the job they do. And quite frankly I think there are rather too many journalists posting on MN to take such a wide swipe at them.

(I've written about smacking too, btw.)

How can we teach zero tolerance to our kids if hitting is an acceptable part of family life?

Just read a previous thread- discordia - I'm not implying you humiliate your child but just trying to explain why I think smacking is wrong.

Not thread - message.

Glitterfairy, to answer your question so many posts ago but just yesterday! Yes my Dad hit me and my brother quite a bit from a very young age. His hitting was very premeditated and often involved his belt while my mum's hitting was the lashing out that a few people have mentioned and involved anything withing reach. When we were smaller it was generally for me brother and I fighting - my brother is 3 years older, so go figure ...

The last time my dad hit me he slapped my face with such force that I hit the ground. I was 15 and hadn't been thankful enough toward my Stepmum's purchase of new school shirts 2 sizes too large for me. The last time my mum hit me I was 16 and I had just said the F word about my Step brother stealing a cassette I had just purchased (Billy Idol's Rebel Yell as I recall) She chipped my jaw.

I don't forgive either of them for any of the occasions that I was hit. My DH was never ever it, and neither will my children be. Right now my DS is upset enough by being told nein nein and being picked up.

Sympathies as. my mum went the other way and would threaten us with a wooden spoon if wound up but rarely used it. She went out of her way to be peaceful to counteract my fathers temper.

Not as but AS for AussieSim.

Aussisim that is awful and thank you for being so up front. I agree with hercules and say where do you draw the line? How do you know that your line is not too far. Punishment to me is almost always a bad word. To punish is to inflict pain and pain inflicted by a caring adult on a child cannot be a good thing. I want my kids to grow up knowing it is wrong to hit others and inflict pain and I can only lead by example. My kids know that I think both punishment and pain are wrong they own up to their mistakes as they know they will not be punished if they do no matter what. That does not stop me getting cross and they are more upset by hurting me than by anything I could do to them. To let me down makes them sad.

MotherInferior, I wasn't aware that journalists have a special privileged position on this site and can't be criticised. I don't think you should be so sensitive - a criticism of how the media reports things is not a condemnation of all journalists per se, anymore than a criticism of how the NHS treats women in labour is a condemnation of all midwives. Frankly,I don't see that any profession should have any particular protection from criticism (mine included).

AussieSim, sorry to hear that It's good to hear you broke the cycle though x

I usually say sorry when I say something I shouldn't and hopefully my sons will learn to apologise when wrong. DS1 is already showing signs of it and feels free to tell me I'm wrong when I am. I think we need to respect each other no matter what age we are. It must be harder for those not shown it as children though. My dad was quite tyranical but lucky for me he wasn't too well as I got older and I was a rebel. He said I was his cross to bear so I suppose he must've felt some guilt at the way he treat my sisters and brother.

Blimey, I do go on when I get going It's quite cathartic this though.

Going back to bloss - i think many of you have proved her point. Discordia for example is getting post after post "Why do you do this?" With over tones of shock and horror at Discordias post. The use of phrases like "Inflicting pain" and "Acceptable form of family life" by other mumsnetters proves their ignorance on the use of smacking as a controlled punishment.

i dislike the "you are not as evolved as i am" non smack brigade approach.

i can understand some of you feeling traumatised at being physicaly abused - but being smacked is a different thing to ongoing physical abuse. I really dont understand someone weeping in a corner becuase they were smacked for being naughty when they were 6 years old.

When i was 6 years old i was smacked for walking home from school on my own. i understand why i was smacked. i was smacked once on the legs. The next time i remember being smacked after that i was 15 and had my boyfriend in my bedroom ( hes now my dh) both times i understand why i was smacked. smacking wasnt an "acceptable form of family life" with its overtones of hitting a child on a daily basis. smacking for me as a child happened when it needed to - in my case i can only remember twice in my life.

i punish my children in all kinds of ways - i could ( and may) write a book on it. i think smacking my children is letting them off easily. Now, making them be alone in a room in my opinion is horrible. Screaming at them for ages also horrible. I find making them tidy the house is far better than smacking. However, i reserve the right to smack my children if they have done something that i consider warrents that punishment.

i think you were all being arsey when asking to "differentiate" between a tap and a smack i mean ffs! i do think however that some Mnetters probably smack their children as a form of punishment but feel scared to say "the" word for fear of being verbally ABUSED verbally by other Mnetters.

I am every bit as good a parent. In fact i think i am the dogs bollox of a parent. I have no guilt trips. I punish as a form of social control in my family. This goes with reward charts and praise. My children will not hit other children bacuause i say so. It's the same reason they do the dishes. Believe me its very rare for a 14 yr old to do the dishes becuase he loves you and decides to do it freely in appreciation of your lovely cooked tea! he will do it becuase i say so. I believe smacking a child is an aceptable way of modifying a childs behaviour.

I believe most forms of punishments are usually threats which are never caried to fruition. I belive my children to be utter delights around other people and i cannot say that for 98% of children i meet who are spoiled little brats often threatened with punishments for rude and bad behaviour which is never carried out. i think its harder to carry out a defined punishment in a controlled way than it is to give lax punishments or not to punish at all.

all 3 of my children were grounded as a punishment since saturday a punishment which finished today. It's half term here and they are driving me nuts. They were allowed out today. but i stood my ground for 4 days - the full length of the punishment. This punishment to my children is worse than smacking - the point being i as the parent set the perameters of the punishment and carried it through.

lets face it guys. if we were all perfect parents mumsnet would have a very small place if a place at all.

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I'm with the smackers (not regular, in the context of a loving relationship).

But I do see how smacking can muck up adult relationships. I think discipline at any time depends on personal circumstances. As long as the main aim is to modify your childs bad behaviour, rather than to hurt them physically or emotionally. If the latter takes over, then any descipline based on that aim is wrong. You judge what is ok for you and your child at a given time. For instance, some children respond well to sticker charts, some don't. So isn't it possible that children will respond to smacks or threats of smacks in different ways? For some children a smack would never be right, for others, sometimes, it might be.

I was smacked a few times as a child by my very tolerant, loving mum. I loved her to bits as a child and an adult. It didn't affect our relationship at all.

My husband was smacked more than a few times byr his father, the last time 'beaten up' in his words, when he was a teenager. It cemented a rift between them that lasts to this day. But then my PIL was an ultra strict parent who I believe did not show his love easily. Had he been a different sort of man, who knows if the smacking would have left such a scar?

I read the article. I don't go with the equation that smacking automatically equals lack of communication or a non loving relationship. The good parenting suggestions are fine but I don't think the article as a whole makes sense.

MB, sorry to pick at this scab but I read 'I do think it's perfectly justifiable to attack the media on almost any given occasion!' as yet ANOTHER repetition of the popular 'everything to do with the media is utterly evil'. Ditto, 'quite typical of the way the media reports things'.

Of course we don't have a privileged position. But there are a lot of people involved in some way with 'the media' who might take offence. Just as MN would be a VERY bad place to repeat the popular 'all lawyers are evil'.

Bloss I understand the crustiness but I am not sure that your assumption about how we all think is true either. Firstly, I dont think because anyone smacks their child even in frustration they are a poor mother.Secondly I am perfectly willing to accept that smacking is a form of discipline just as the use of the electric chair is a part of the American legal system. However i dont think that smacking is a good way to discipline and that is my premise. I am not arguing about discipline but the methods used and if you wish to make assumptions about what I say perhaps they should be tested first.

Forgot to add motherinferior my dh is a journalist and a documentary film maker. He is caring and fanatical about the truth and ensuring people are not hurt by exposure. I work for the NHS and get a totally different view of the media which most people around me seem to be really scared of but ultimately if used well would be helpful to them. I agree that the media is often lumped togather and targeted for abuse and judged by the worst behaviour of the minority rather than all in it.

OK keep picking! I want to let it go, but can't! At the risk of sounding confrontational, I don't think we should worry about whether people get offended or not, otherwise, we would not be able to express our views clearly. The fear of causing offence is an absolute blight on the ability to debate - but I think people shouldn't be afraid to cause offence, and even more, i don't think people should be afraid of being challenged, and use the "I'm offended" line, to stop debate. For example, I think it is a bit strong, Beetroot, to condemn other Mumsnetter disciplinary methods as a form of abuse - but you've got every right to say it is, and I'm not remotely offended by it - but I do disagree with you. I think any form of discipline, carried too far, can be a form of abuse if it is the context of an abusive relationship; and as others have said, for one child, what counts as abuse might be perfectly reasonable for another; I don't know if anyone has read Malachi McCourt, Frank McCourt's (Angela's Ashes) brother; but he has famously said that he had a very happy childhood, totally different to Frank's litany of misery. I don'think either of these two men are lying; I just think they are different people and have responded to the ways they were treated differently, and as parents, we have to be aware that our children are individuals and need to be treated accordingly; what will work for one, might not work for another. Smacking, even lightly, might be real abuse for one child; whereas a very hard smack might be water off a duck's back for another. Context is all.

I have smacked my ds before (although not for over a year) but strongly diasgree with it as a form of discipline/punishment. But I've been thinking about this debate and how I've used controlled crying with both my children when they were young babies to get them to go to sleep on their own. I find it interesting that one is seen as acceptable (albeit cruel to be kind) and one is demonised even though they are both techniques used to modify behaviour. (Not that smacking ever worked for me anyway).

Was going to stay out of this one as I do have mixed feelings on the subject but Custardo's post really hit the nail on the head, agree nearly 100%. I was brought up very strictly, too strictly in the case of my dad I think, but we knew who was boss COMPLETELY, if my parents said jump we did! We were all smacked occasionally but the punishment was at the time and for things like running into the road etc, dangerous things. I do not have ANY bad memories of this.

I know this doesn't fit in with the 'explain everything' type of parenting today, but sometimes children need to be aware of who is in charge and not have to have a 30 minute discussion on the whys and wherefores of behaviour, 'because I am Mum and I said so' should suffice.

My parents were always told when we were young what well behaved children we were, because, if told to sit down and crayon/watch tv/be quiet, we did, no 'but whyyyyyyy?' just because you were told.

I am definitely going to be a strict parent, and that may include the occasional smack/tap/whatever on the hand.

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Bloss - do you mean me planning to be strict?

To those who say "I was smacked and still love my mum' - great. But we're not talking about you. We're talking about your kids. I merely said that there are quite a few of us who are not 'crying in corners' but do find the fact that our parents hit us when we were children (and no, I'm not talking about belts or canes or slaps around the head) HAS come between us and our parents as adults and damaged our relationship. It's a FACT. I would be closer to my parents had they not hit me. I think smacking is hitting btw. And it MAY happen to you. I hope it won't, obviously, because everyone here loves their kids, but it MAY. and that IMO is worth thinking about when you relate to your kids. There are several of here that say the same thing, so it isn't that rare. I don't think anyone feels loved when they are being hit. And the idea that you have to hit kids or they will be horrible people is ridiculous. My stepdaughter has never been hit in her life and is fantastic, and yes, she does the washing up (or rather, fills and empties the dishwasher!) if someone asks her to. She also hoovers and tidies and dusts if we ask her. I don't think she's a freak. And if that sounds 'smug' then so be it. It works for us!

And the alternative to 'explaining everything for hours' is not whacking your kids! Positive parenting is all about praising good behaviour and ignoring bad - and anyone who has seen Little Angels (which IMO should be compulsory viewing for all new parents) will be able to see how transforming effective it is. And look! - no hands.