May Babies

[GeorginaA]

Have we got enough that I can officially open this thread yet?

How are your little ones doing prufrock, twiglett, snowbird?

I think mine is going down with jaundice. Dh isn't convinced, but it's either that or he's got a lovely tan sigh. I remember all the stress associated with that last time with ds1... hoping ds2 doesn't get it as badly.

He's still being a very sicky baby, about a couple of teaspoons a few hours after each feed (which is odd - I'd have thought if it was a reflux type thing it would happen immediately after the feed?) Midwife seems to think it'll settle after the milk comes in but if not then we'll look at some sort of baby gaviscon. Poor little mite, can't be comfortable for him... and we're sure getting through a lot of laundry!

Feel so bloody knackered at the moment, fed up of bits leaking and being sore, and it's only day 2! How long is it before you start feeling human again? Please tell me that it's sooner than the 2 week paternity leave dh gets!!

That is great cat82, you will find loads of wise words on this particular thread - being the smarties we are! and I will answer your e-mail asap too!

Sounds like the footie fever has taken hold for sure! My ex husband hated football, now I seem to have fallen for the other extreme . . . its pants either way. I just have a healthy interest in the big games! plus I prefer rugby, and that irritates DP big time

Grizzle pants is kicking off . . . again. heyho. had better go.

cat82, my feelings about DP choosing pub over us have been made very clear! I am surprised you didn't hear!

(actually it did occur to me earlier that I liked DP away because I can stick to a proper routine! and he doesn't have some loon annoying him when he should be sleeping!)

he he he!

the toys thing is interesting.. we have the jingly pram string which is sweet but actually I'm not sure if she's really that fussed about it. My favourite interaction with dd has to be just singing and talking to her. I can't believe how much she tunes in to voices... and sleeps to calming tunes, and looks perky when you chat perkily to her. Yes, when there is more it'll be fantastic but it's amazing just to see the basic plan of what interaction will grow from!

libb, have recieved an e mail from mumsnet saying you didn't wish to be contacted via the site,so they can't pass my details on, you need to update your profile apparently

Arrrrggghhhh! have had afternoon from hell,dd has not stopped crying at me, every time i put her down she howled at me. Then i gave her a bath, and she calmed down and finaly fell asleep, followed by dp arriving home from work. I asked him to keep an eye on the bath water emptying into the bucket while i gave dd last feed of the day, I SWEAR he said yes, and thought no more about it, until i realised the kitchen was flooded. He went beserk, followed much screaming "I asked you to keep and eye on it" "no you didn't" followed by me crumpled sobbing wreck on floor
it was too much after the stress of the afternoon!
anyway, think dp quickly realised i was on the edge and apologized for yelling. We had a cuddle and he went to get a takeaway, so happy ending.
Just had to get it off my chest! grrr

The gasman came round just before 5pm and was amazed that we weren't watching the football. I had to admit that I wasn't aware of the game being on and we were watching Clifford the Big Red Dog !
Our telly is dodgy at the moment and a good slap on the side is the only way to bring back the picture sometimes. Am concerned that DD will start to take matters into her own hands when I leave her infront of it whilst settling DS!
GeorginaA - have been considering posting this for a while but didn't want to appear mad! Its a burping method that we've found resoundingly effective on occasions (produces one of those that you could say "bollocks" through if you were a schoolboy ). However, it can only be used if baby has some head control. I hold baby up with hand under each armpit and just dangle there for 5 or so seconds...have noticed that DH also incorporates a very tiny swinging motion! Then go back to on shoulder method. When I was a child and had hiccups, my dad used to dangle me from the door frame to get rid of them - he said the position stretched the diaphragm! I suppose the burping method has developed from that with the same thinking! Anyway, I hope you get some success from it...or even just a bit of a laugh at my freakish childhood memory!

Oooo ... I can do that Judd - mainly because dh has taught me how to hold ds2 in that position and still keep his neck steady (you extend your fingers upwards and support the back of his head with your fingers - maybe we're lucky we have long fingers or ds2 has a short neck though ). He does have fairly strong neck muscles already though and does support himself for short periods quite well.

Had a hellish day, but quite a nice relaxed last feed/put in the cot. He's still awake at the moment, but just making noises to himself and not crying so I'm being quietly confident! I'll probably post back in ten minutes saying "will this babe NEVER stop crying?!" of course!

welcome to cat82, sorry not to say that before and ramble on... just read your other thread andfeel like I might be appearing rather smug. but this smug one also has many wobbly moments... I am conscious that there are good things just starting to happen with the wee one and that is a good feeling really because of the slog of the rest of it...

Hope finding mumsnet gives you some relief. I would rate it above all else for sanity saving, it's unbelievable how many fantastic people with generosity and common sense can be found on this little screen.

so is there some fooball game on or something...?

we in scotland just quietly cooking our tea right now.

GeorginaA, I'm now imagining all your family with these hugely long chopstick-length fingers (like some sort of gremlin character!) rather than the elegant tapers that I am sure you actually have

Yeah, we're all related to ET really

Still quiet on the babe front... reluctant to tempt fate and draw conclusions that he's actually asleep in the 7-10pm slot for the first time in weeks...

GeorginaA, that is also my burping technique - the sitting them up and balancing head thing! a midwife did it on one of her visits very early on and it stuck! he does some corkers! (and I can't believe how chuffed I am when he does!) although he does tend to attempt the head hold on his own which gives me the heeby jeebies to be honest!

Speaking of which - Cat82, my e-mail address is [email protected] if you want to get in touch (and anyone else who might be so inclined). Another mumsnetter sent an e-mail but she must've e-mailed them direct to do it! I did wonder if I had squiffy settings - will have a look at my profile thang.

The little booger has finally settled, didn't watch the game as next door screamed each goal as they occured! watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer instead - brilliant! (maybe I wont give DP a hard time afterall!) xxxx

I currently have 4 burping techniques (though I'm about to add the dangling one which I use in succession for a good 5-10mins after a feed (poor little mite is probably thinking for GODS SAKE MUMMY I BURPED AGES AGO NOW LET ME SLEEP!)

• sitting and balancing chin on my hand, rubbing his back gently, just like you libb (this is my favourite)
• leaning him over my shoulder and rubbing his back (this is a struggle as his neck is so strong, he's constantly fighting to keep it upright and overcompensating - so I'm always on the watch for him flinging himself backwards!)
• lying him with his stomach over my knees (my arms aren't long enough for a proper colic "tiger in the tree" hold - and this seems equivalent) while rubbing his back. This is ds2's favourite... he really relaxes into this and emits contented little squeeks every now and then - very very cute!
• lying him on his back on my legs and cycling his legs (to help any farts on their way out )

Betcha never knew burping could be so complicated, did you?!

I did all this rigmarole at parents and toddlers today and I got some very funny looks...

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my dd seems to prefer being held up on someones shoulder to burp. dd1 was the same. If dd2 has had a bottle though she's better at burping if we sit her up with our hand under her chin.

dd2 has a baby gym with three animals that hang above her and it plays music, she lies under it sometimes but doesn't really seem to pay much attention to it at the moment. She also has a bar that goes across her bouncy seat with balls hanging on it to look at and play with but since the most she will tolerate in the seat is 10 minutes that hasn't been used much yet.

Cat, Welcome to the May babies thread and I'm sorry to hear that your having such a tough time, the newborn stage is always a tough time but it does get better, in a few weeks you'll be fine. Once the baby is more responsive it gets a whole lot better. Mother nature has a funny way of making you forget how tough the first few weeks can be, that's why we have more babies. Like spots and probably most of the others on this thread I've had my fair share of wobbly days as well, it does get better though, honest.

my dd doesn't seem to burp that effectivly with any technique! however i do find the sitting upright on my lap with head supported it the best. My dp finds that rubbing the base of the spine quite slowly is the best for him.
Have to agree with twiglet tho, dd sometimes refuses to burp and then we put her down and she won't settle, then if we pick her up she'll burp naturaly.
Georgina- "tiger in the tree hold"? I've not heard of that is there a description? though I haven't got very long arms either
libb- stand by for a mail, it would be great to meet up

"tiger in the tree" is where you have their tummy lying on your hand and they're stretched out along your arm with their head nestled in your elbow. Sort of how a tiger languidly stretches itself out on a tree branch! Unfortunately ds2 is really long and he doesn't fit!! Dh can do it, but I can't.

I don't know what to do about the vaccinations coming up. I'd like to get the infanrix like twiglett is fighting for, but concerned about the posibility of hib being less effective. But also concerned about giving him DTwP instead of DTaP (Ds1 had DTaP originally I think and was fine - but had a DTwP-hib booster last year and was really quite ill after it).

Surgery has said they won't do infanrix, and I've talked to the nurse about it (who is getting more info for me) but I don't know whether it's worth the effort for me to fight for it (not the family auto-immune concerns that twiglett has) - especially as either way I'll feel that I'm putting ds2 at risk - either from mercury + whole cell pertissus or from the reduced hib effectiveness.

Why isn't any parenting choice black and white?!

Welcome cat82, hope you find mumsnet as useful as me.
When DD is in a alert mood(in between crying and sleeping) we were given a soft book which is brightly coloured and she likes lying on the floor just staring at the pictures, only normally amuses her for 5 mins though. The rest of the time I talk or sing to her which she seems to like. Weve got a play gym and a toy bar but neither interest her at the moment.
Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement. I think the thing im finding the hardest is the struggle of getting her to go down during the days. She will go in the moses basket or rocker for approx 5 mins before stirring and eventually crying until shes picked back up. It means I dont get any rest or get to do anything round the house. Half of me just thinks its not worth the hassle and I may as well let her sleep on me and the other half thinks she needs to learn to go down and so I keep trying. Ive also resorted to giving her a dummy when she cries as nothing I do calms her down. I just feel like a failure, as I know that not putting her down, her not going to sleep on her own and now the dummy mean i could be making a rod for my own back and giving her the wrong sleep association.
How many hours are your babies alert/awake for each day? In the GF book it says that they should be awake approx 5 hours throughout the day at 2 weeks old. We dont manage half of that. Normally straight after a feed she sleeps and is only really awake bewteen 5-6.30 each day or if shes crying because ive disturbed her. weve given up trying to follow it as we can never stick to any of the times.

Kbaby, First of all you are NOT a failure.
and second of all do we have the same baby? I think we might.

My dd won't sleep during the day in her moses basket, likes sleeping in someones arms or occasionally on her changing mat. She also has a dummy, has had since she was 6 days old Was going to try not to give her a dummy but midwife suggested that since she was a sucky baby it was better to give her the dummy rather than let her destroy my nipples. Plus it's a saving sanity when she's screaming and dd1 needs my help, if dd2 decides to keep it in her mouth of course if she doesn't want it she just spits it out.

So I never get anything done around the house as she always wants to be held or feeding and spends most of the day screaming, like today.

Today she screamed all the time she was awake and wanted fed all the time, I think we might have hit a growth spurt.

I also have given up on the gina ford book for the minute. I can't manage any of the times, dd2 will wake up at 6am then want fed again at 9am then refuse to sleep and definitely doesn't manage to last until 2pm for her next feed usually has a feed around 11.30/12pm. I'm hoping once she's on bottles this will even out a bit better so I can get things done and spend time with dd1 during the holidays.

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So this is probably not the best time to mention that GF actually seems to be working for us at the moment (well in the day at least!!) then?

Can't believe how much ds2 has settled down in the last couple of days. Nights are still a bit of a mare, and it's still very hard work getting him to settle - but he'll sleep 2 good naps out of 3 in the day now (and the one he doesn't he'll sleep for some of it), and evening is a 75%ish chance he'll settle if he's not windy/refluxy.

I am fairly flexible though about starting naps early when he needs it so being very aware if he wakes early to get him down to nap again before 2 hours is up, or if he didn't sleep at one nap let him fall asleep directly after the next feed to catch up.

Of course, by posting this I'm going to jinx myself...

There's a lot to catch up on here so I've spent ages reading through it all. Know the feeling about jinxing things Georgina.

Not really much to report. DD had a bad day on Wednesday and has had a couple of unsettled evenings but seems to be doing OK tonight. Starting to panic about getting organised for the holiday. Just can't get my head round what we need to take.

Linnett im glad im not the only one suffering. I met with some girls from anti natal this week and all their babies were just so quiet and slept the whole time whereas im constantly trying to stop mine from crying.
Our days vary, sometimes shell have a really bad day where nothing will console her and she will cry all day, others are better with crying spells if she is put down. Typical day is
awake 6.45
feed and then sleeps until next feed, with crying inbetween if I put her down to allow me to get dressed. More food and more sleep until 5ish when she wakes and is alert for about 1 hour, bath and then ready for bed and more sleep, which means more lying on our laps until 10.30 when she goes in her moses basket in our bedroom.
Yesterday she slept all day from 11.30am until 8.30pm and woke only for food and when I changed her nappy. Although I put her down in her cot awake while I went to get changed and shed fallen asleep by the time id got back, which was a major achievement. She also settled herself at bedtime instead of me having to rock her to sleep. It doesnt seem to have lasted mind. Today were back to normal.
DP's taken her up his nans this morning so ive had 3 full hours of being on my own which is bliss. I also made him give a bottle of expressed milk last night to let me get some sleep. He had the nerve this morning to tell me he needs a nap this afternoon as hes tired. Tired!!! I couldve killed him, if only he had to get up twice every night and then at 6.45 am every morning then he may know about being tired.
Anyway enough about my domestic's. Have a fun day everyone.

Why is it that all other babies you meet out and about at baby groups etc are all angellic easy babies that you can take everywhere?! From reading this thread it would seem that high-need babies are in the majority (or it could just be that the angellic babes' mums aren't posting as much... twiglett? prufrock? ).

Perhaps it's just that high-need babies don't get taken out as much?! I certainly couldn't take ds1 out as a babe and have a coffee with friends in town (a coffee in a friend's house was easier as they were more understanding)... ds2 seems to be the same.

Is it my lousy parenting skills, or am I just unfortunate/fortunate in that I seem to produce very high-need babies that positively thrive on routine?!

kbaby, Don't worry you're definatly not on your own!
I too am a GF follower and i am having a problems with the routine at the moment, but I'm not trying to follow it too vigerously at the mo, as I've had a VERY low couple of weeks.
I've actualy had more problems trying to get dd to estay awake lately, but have had occasions where tiredness etc has made me just hold her all day to get her sleep more soundly and for longer. After just a couple of days I noticed she wasn't going off to sleep on her own any more, and blatently refused to go down in her cot in the day. Things progressed from bad to worse with every time I put her down she'd scream.
I think I may have helped this by trying the "pick up, put down" technique. When she cries pick her up, until she's calm making soothing "there there" noises, the minute she's calm or drowsy put her back down and move away, leave her until she's crying again, and do exactly the same thing. Repeat until she gets the message that she can sleep on her own. Honestly it does work.
I agree, don't focus too much on the routine right now, wait until things have calmed down, just try and stick to the feeding times if you can.
As for tired dp-Pah! is all i can say!
Chin up hone- it will get better xxx

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