the way a mother at the school gates treats her kids...I know it's none of my business but what are your views?

[sunnysideup]

Ok so the issue is that when I wait at the school gates to pick up ds, one of the other mums arrives with a 2 kids, around 3 yrs old I'd say. Not sure if they are hers or whether she is a childminder for them....

I'm just finding it so depressing, the way she treats them. She holds their wrists and will not let them move - at all. We wait in a little enclosed play area so there would be no safety issue in letting them go...they spend 10 mins or so struggling, hanging from her arms, twirling round and twisting their arms as she will not let go. Even when they stand still, she tells them how to stand - the other day she was telling the boy "BOTH feet on the ground!" When they ask to sit down she says no.

I have been on MN long enough to know that there are many sides to a story and that judging people isn't helpful, but I DREAD getting ds now, I just find the way this woman treats the kids really quite upsetting.

I have tried to think whether there's any way I could step in to chat or something but this lady does have a couple of friends she speaks to and they don't mention the whining kids getting chinese burns from the mother's iron grip while they chat!!!

OK folks, what do you think? Am totally prepared to be told to mind own business/get a life and am already in process of doing this

If you want to find out if they are hers or if she's a childminder, then chat to her. I'm sure there is a way. Even if it's just to ask a question or talk about the weather, and say, 'are they twins?' if they are the same age.
I suspect loads of people will tell you to butt out and stop being judgemental, but I know that awful feeling of being very upset by how kids are treated and feeling powerless to help. So I totally sympathise with you - and the children.

biblio, THANKS. I know I should butt out but it really helps to know someone else would feel the same.

I will try and chat to her.

actually, I don't really agree that we should always mind our own business when it comes to the way children are being treated. that assumes that parents are always doing the best they can and not damaging their children. sometimes children do need to be protected from adults.
in your situation I would try to speak to her. I would also try and find out if they are hers or if she childminds them . I would also - probably - say something like "are you worried about them running off?" or something.
but I am an interfering old bag.

Mind your own business, get a life

If she is hurting them then of course that is horrible but they may be like my ds2 (now 2.5). If I let go of him he will run off and keep tying to evade me and then cry buckets when I catch him. This is why he stays in the buggy.

I wouldn't chat to her in a friendly way, I wouldn't be able to. I would probably look "concerned" at her, quite pointedly, or possibly say something like "Oh, they want to run about and play, don't they?" I don't think it is a bad thing for parents to be made aware that other people are watching them while they mistreat their children - it may make the curb the behaviour a bit, or at least make them see that it isn't considered normal.

But I am an interfering old boot as well

we could form an interfering old bag club
oh look we already did

Unfortunately we do have a culture of "mind your own business" when it comes to things like domestic violence and ill-treatment of children - it's very sad IMO. I think children's basic welfare is everbody's business.

We could wear a little badge with an old boot on it, and carry walkie talkies like Mrs Brady Old Lady

cht to her, it will put your own mind at rest.

agree with the biblio/harpsi approach.

thanks tinker

Harpsy, thanks for that. That's what I think - butting out and letting people get on with life is great but as you say sometimes parents DO harm kids...basically this woman's approach seems harsh and unkind....

Fio, this is different to what you describe mainly I think because i find it inappropriate iykwim - I make my ds hold my hand to cross the road, and if he refuses then I hold his wrist and just get him accross safely, at times!

But this woman wants the kids to stand stock still, and not move, with both feet on the ground. And she expects them to do this for at least 10 mins while she waits for another child. And this is in a small, gated enclosed playground, where I can't see any safety issue would arise from letting them go and play.

I would rather risk offending some grumpy mare who was having a bad day and taking it out on her child, than turn a blind eye to children being ill-treated under my nose.

Well I agree with FioFio.

oh fio come on, that's is so clearly not what sunnysideup is talking about. we have all experienced a wriggly toddler, but the OP is desdcribing something quite different.
sunnysideup is finding the sight quite upsetting, and I cant imagine for a moment she would find the sight of you holding onto your son upsetting, would she?

ok, another side the the story. you see a lady walking along with a child who looks about 4 in apparence and height . very firm grip on the child, always saying 'both feet on the ground' to the child, never lets go of that childs hand. why does she do this?

because that child is only actually 2years old.

maybe the kids have some behaviour issues, i dont know. but i know if i let me dd2 at 2 (looking about 4) run around the playground, she would be lost within 5mins, even if its enclosed. if someone opened the gate to get in or out i would have to zoom off to catch her, as she would escape.

Have a chat with the lady, see how she is, she may have her hands very full, and not know anyone in the area, to feel that she can let go of her chidlrens hands.

Sounds very sad. Always wonder why some parents won't just let their children be - shouting orders at them repeatedly about what seems to me to be very trivial stuff, for instance - how they are standing or sitting. But maybe these two are holy terrors for running off - playground may look secure to you but there are some children who will always find the weak point in any system of defences!

In your shoes, I'd say hello to her and see if you can strike up a conversation.

Ds2 is 3yrs old and I've yet to find a so-called enclosed play area that he can't escape from. Ds1 at the same age would've been fine.

No one is ill treating or abusing children here.

OK she doesn't want to have the kids running around and to do this she holds their wrists (to stop them wriggling free) and she won't let them sit down because I expect she is pretty damn sure they will run off ignoring her all together.

If she was shouting or swearing at them or hitting them then I would get involved, but just because she makes her children stand still does not mean she is abusing them.

Another possibility: maybe she has to rush off once she'd got the kid she's picking up? So if she lets the little ones play, she'll be late (or later) for her next pick up?

I'd chat with her.

PMSL at harpsichord.

Know what you mean tho Sunny, it's kind of a gut feeling isn't it? Difference between a harassed mother with fractious kids and smthing that feels a bit more malicious...not right word...inappropriate....anyway know what you mean.

Not much to do tho, except tut with us nosey old bags who know better on MN.

is it appropriate to expect a 2 year old to always have both feet on the ground then misdee??? If the children are younger than they appear then I would think this was even more inappropriate to be honest.

I do see what you are saying about the safety issue of a child running off... it is a possibility but it's one that many other mums cope with in a totally different way, without the unrealistic expectations this woman seems to have....