Teachers speaking out about parents' long working hours

[vestandknickers]

Here.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27027677

Interesting. I think it is good that this is being raised as an issue.

I am not anti working parents at all, but surely a society that thinks it is ok for children to be at school from 8am to 6pm needs to look at itself.

Hopefully it is still a small minority of children who spend five days a week at school for these hours, but it is good that teachers are speaking out before it becomes seen as an acceptable norm.

horse you seem to be looking back tio an era when women were essentailly disenfranchised as some sort of halcyon time.

Do any of us really wish to go back to a tiem when women played no part in the decsion making of society? I don't recall it being a particularly great time to be female! Nor to be a child!

vest the reality is that in the UK, one wage is often insufficent to live on.

However, two wages allows all those luxuries you speak of. There's often no middle ground.

Women through the ages have worked for money. However, this work has tended to be casual, seasonal, flexible, home-based (e.g. taking in laundry/ironing) or work that could be done with a child (or two) in tow. What has changed (for the better!) is that women have greater access to career jobs now.

Some families find having two parents with full time career jobs is do. Others don't. What would make everyone's lives easier is:

• for it to become more acceptable to have a female main wage earner and male part time worker/main childcarers
• for more companies to discover the benefits of flexible working in certain roles
• a culture shift towards shorter core office hours
• tax breaks for nannies and other non-mainstream childcare (for children who for whatever reason don't 'fit the mold' with group-care provision)

I'm not sure how we actually change any of this though.

Bucket - if teachers only work part time hours then who do you think is watching your children out of hours?! My best friend is a teacher...she works from 7.30am til 5.30/6pm - hardly what I'd consider part time. Anyway...

I don't think the article reads as them having a pop. They were asked their opinion and related what they saw from their own experience. It is more of a reflection on how hard it is for parents. It sounds like they sympathise with parents who have to work long hours/ full time to ensure they can pay the bills and provide the best for their children.

I think it's one of the hardest choices for families and for some it isn't even a choice, mums have to return to work. I think parents should be supported to stay at home/leave work early etc.

Interesting though - where I work a couple of woman aren't coming back to work, taking a massive cut in their income to be there 24/7 for their children. There has been massive debate about them sacrificing their careers/sense of self and I was surprised by how many people, including other mums, who have turned their noses up and implied that these woman are slackers/spoilt. Does anyone else admire mums who live on much less money but are there for their children?

'Does anyone else admire mums who live on much less money but are there for their children?'

No. I admire families where that is a decision that has been made. It works if all members of the group have some understanding of the full consequences of that choice, and accept it.

Well, can they please persuade work to reduce my hours, as I requested 3 or 4 day weeks, and it was flatly rejected.

Yes, we could manage financially on just DH's salary, but my mental health sufferers immensely when I'm full time at home (as in counselling and AD's). That also isn't a good environment for kids.

While teachers work hard, and long into the evenings and school holidays, most of the people who were granted reduced hours (as in they officially work between 2 and 4 days a week) were teachers. I can only think of two other people (a nursery nurse and a recruitment consultant) who have been granted reduced hours. Thats verses 3 in my field who have been rejected, and maybe a dozen teachers granted (I seem to know lots of teachers!). I also know lots of people in STEM subjects who haven't even bothered to ask, as they know its not worth it - it will be rejected.

In many small businesses flexi working is not really possible, especially

Wordfactory of course I am not. That's an absurd conclusion to come to from my post.

I am simply explaining how we got here, where children aren't seeing their parents all week because the minimum wage doesn't cover their housing costs.

The children with problems here aren't the daughters of the successful barister who has broken the glass ceiling against all odds, it is the daughters of the woman who works at tescos and whose husband works in a call centre.

This is about money and class, not feminism. Do you not see how those in power have used our labour against us?

If you only have one or two staff and deadlines or a shop to open, plus you cant afford to pay living wages either ic no one is buying or using your business in stiff economic times.

Just Checked nut webpage and contracted hours for an entry level teacher is 19 hours, thats not full time to me.

It's the fault of childminders... It always is

Electical huh? Why do you say that.

Interestingly in Sweden some women complain that the high tax breaks offered to women who stay at home are disincentivising them from going back to work, but at least they hve the choice.

Mrsbucket, can we not make this about teachers please?
Why is it that some jobs will accept jobshares easily and others not?
Why is it that wraparound care is deemed inadequate by so many, and what changes could be made to improve it?

Vest I work and yes we do have 2 cars, foreign holidays etc.

DD is not at school age yet but when she is I'm sure we will use a combination of after school clubs and grandparents to cover the gaps where neither my husband and I are not around. As we do with her kindergarten now.

Fair enough for those who want to, and are lucky enough to afford to, stay at home but I'm just not sure what I would do with my days! It is very much my choice to work and I'm not sure under what circumstances I would want to stop.

And in my experience the fee paying prep schools around us having a core day from around 8am to 5pm anyway (and a large proportion of mums who don't work).

Not really sure what the point of the article is. The reality for most families is that they need two incomes and women who want to work shouldn't be made to feel guilty for doing so.

Because mrsbucket childminders, as well as teachers, get the blame for most "childcare/education" issues. We are either too expensive and shit (childminders) or too lazy and shit ( teachers) and having experience if both those professions we are not any of those!

Because mrsbucket childminders, as well as teachers, get the blame for most "childcare/education" issues. We are either too expensive and shit (childminders) or too lazy and shit ( teachers) and having experience if both those professions we are not any of those!

It's not 'bashing parents' though is it, it's bashing working mothers. It's not saying that all working hours are wrong, just those for parents, and as the world of work is arranged on the understanding that 9-5 is the normal full time job, and a 45 minute commute is not considered excessive, then 8-6 childcare is needed for just the very basic full time hours tht the majority of our society is happy with, it's just those mothers have gone back to work full time - not had a "little local part time job" that are the problem.

If woman are going to be treated equally to men then either we accept the majority of DCs will need to be looked after by someone other than their parents from 8-6 (or longer, we'd struggle with both working just having cover for those times, more like 7:30 start to be at the office for 9), or all of society needs to change it's working practices, because just tryig to change it for parents mean you effectively just change it for woman - and you end up with the situation where woman's careers stall after having DCs because they work less hours, do less work, and our business culture rewards those who "go the extra mile", which is hard to do if you've got to leave early to pick up the kids...

contracted CONTACT time with students.

there is more to teaching as a job beyond just delivering lessons. your ignorance and commitment to maintaining it is remarkable

Maybe more childminders. Or nursery type settimgs that cater for older children like a cm Setting with more children.

anyway, why moan mrsbucket, if you own a shop the only hours you work are when you are serving customers- should amount to only a few hours daily.

sounds easy, tbh

They'd need to improve the services for those of us that have children with additional needs that aren't wanted by wraparound clubs, child minders or activity clubs too.

Why shoukd the world of work change for patents there are already a massive disenfranchised section of society that has no children that feels hard done by.

Work is what it is, childcare needs to be wrap around to fall inline with work if that is what the parent wishes to do.

Parenthood is a choice after all.

I think the issue for children is attachment, when a child spends a lot of time away from their main carer the attachment bond is strained. It's tbere in the psychology books. The main carer doesn't need to be the mother but it needs to be someone they see every day. In a school setting, staff change frequently and it will cause a problem. Saying goodnight to them is probably not enough and probably results in children wanting to stay up late or waking in the night.

Can't say I disagree with it.

It's obvious that kids from poor parents probably are better off in school longer and those from wealthier are probably better off at home more.

It is also obvious that unless work changes or childcare can nothing will change. It cannot can it?

Why would a job not be feasible if it was split between two individuals though?
Why not more jobshares, for both sexes, if that was what they wanted?