Teachers speaking out about parents' long working hours

[vestandknickers]

Here.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27027677

Interesting. I think it is good that this is being raised as an issue.

I am not anti working parents at all, but surely a society that thinks it is ok for children to be at school from 8am to 6pm needs to look at itself.

Hopefully it is still a small minority of children who spend five days a week at school for these hours, but it is good that teachers are speaking out before it becomes seen as an acceptable norm.

[hercules1]

Cosikitty- what a load of rubbish! If I thought you had these pitying feelings for my child I would laugh as you are so wrong. I think my dd must look longingly through a pane of glass at all the loving families whisking their children into their arms at 3.30 whilst dd is left to the horrors of after school club.
Except she loves it, doesn't have to join in the games and usually hangs out with girls from not only her class but the years above and below.
Women not working is an incredibly new idea. Years ago she'd be working herself now.

[GoodnessIsThatTheTime]

In our case I wish one of us had a career with flexible hours or similar. I think some flexibility helps.

[hercules1]

Why is there the assumption that children in childcare are suffering?

[BoffinMum]

Ah, the forrin-holidays-abroad-computers-colour-televisions-own-car- greedy-parents argument.

I think you will find a lot of people are working their butts off just to have a home (in some cases, rented rather expensively) and that things like swimming in public pools, dental care, trips to parks and so on were considerably cheaper when we were all kids. And these days it can be cheaper to go abroad for a holiday than stay in the UK, especially if you are seeing relatives (which many people do). And it can be cheaper to buy clothes than get the materials in to make them. And if you are hard up, telly is just about the cheapest form of regular entertainment there is.

Rose tinted glasses, many people.

[BoffinMum]

Hercules, because this country has been anti woman and anti child since 1945, to be honest. Us all staying at home knitting for our rosy cheeked Enid Blyton type frolicking kids would suit a lot of agendas.

[IHaveAFifthSense]

mrsbucketxx is this another pop at "working" parents by teachers who basically have part time hours.

On what planet?

[BoffinMum]

Horsetowater, this is a story of a surprisingly few large landowners throttling the supply of land since the way, NOT anything to do with dual salaries. Don't make the mistake of thinking this is anything to do with working people. Women always worked.

[LookHowTheyShineForYou]

I'm a teacher and work 3 full days, so dd (5) is at school from 8-5.30. On the other days I manage without extra childcare. I also work in the evenings and/or get up at 4.30 to do prep and marking.

I hate it, as dh is out the house from 8-8.

I'll be leaving teaching in the summer, with no idea what else to do, but these hours are a killer and our family life is suffering.

If we could we would both have jobs that allow us to spend more time with the children, but for dh it's impossible. And teaching has become ridiculous over the last 5 years and will get even worse from September.

We'll try and manage on one salary until I've found something else. Even if it means no holidays and savings.

I feel quite bad for my child to be in childcare/school so long, of course it's not ideal. Spending all day with large amounts of children, she's hyper when she comes home and takes a long time winding down.

Teachers are right when they say this development is worrying, it is in my eyes, but there is hardly any alternative around for most people.

[BoffinMum]

It should not be beyond the wit of a school to design and implement a childcare system that deals with children's need for occasional peace and quiet and relaxing. Many do. Parking them in an empty classroom with some felt tips and sugar paper is frankly not childcare.

[NeverQuiteSure]

Possibly lack of 'down time' hercules, although good childcare will allow for this. Another negative is that it is difficult to tailor shared childcare to the needs of each child in the same way that one-on-one childcare or parent-at-home childcare can. For many children this will not be an issue, of course, and they'll love the hussle and bussle of a busy setting. Others will need different types of childcare. I take issue when the government suggests 'one size fits all' approaches.

BTW my youngest was in childcare from 6 weeks old, so I have no anti-childcare/working parents axe to grind.

[horsetowater]

I remember watching a programme about a woman in America with several young children who could only make ends meet by getting the 5am bus across town to spend the day looking after someon elses children. Hers looked after each other. This is where we are heading with this obsession with forcing women to work.

[Goblinchild]

Let's not make this another thread about teachers, it's about all working parents who have to have both adults working in order to make ends meet.
We need some out-of-the-box bluesky thinking to change the status quo.
Or some such neo-management-speak.
So, flexible working, more efficient working, better childcare provision?
The burden and expectation not being placed on the female parent?

[Legologgo]

Also parents who take annual leave in term time. Or put kids into holiday clubs when they are at home. Sadly lots of those

[HolidayCriminal]

" a society that thinks it is ok for children to be at school from 8am to 6pm needs to look at itself. "

This is the far East, Japan, Singapore, Korea, Taiwan. They endorse their public education systems so much that they send their kids to hours with the tutor or at the Crammers as well as a full day in ordinary school, not unusual from about 7yo. Maybe they use the time more productively (study not social play), net effect is still long long hours away from parents. They are on course to take over the world (or PISA tables, anyway).

I've heard it lamented repeatedly that one reason the Far Eastern countries struggle to do well at sport (internationally) is because of the Crammers culture. Probably affects things like achievement in the arts, too.

It's what Gove et al want for Britain, too. Kids in school or crammers long hours studying. They've said as much very repeatedly.

[TheWordFactory]

I think this is the teaching unions response to Gove's suggetion that school hours be lomger. Frankly, I think they should have stayed well clear of the 'think of the children' routine.

[chibi]

given the choice, i would prefer not to be out of the house for 10-11 hours a day either going to work,working or returning home.

it does not strike me as a healthy way to live. there doesn't seem to be a lot of flexibility though, it's all or nothing.

i am definitely prepared to work less/earn less. i am less prepared to live as a family of 4 in a one bed flat (next cheapest accomodation around these parts)

[hercules1]

People chop and change childcare though. I've used a huge range of childcare depending on needs of dc and age etc. I've also changed childcare based on it not working. e.g we had a rubbish childminder once.
For 2 dc we've used a combination of dh working nights, grandmother, Montessori, nursery, pre-school, childminders, breakfast club and after school club.
Love to know when in history women haven't worked.

[cosikitty]

Boffin, I think you have hot the nail on the head there. Schools are there to educate, not childcare, and that is why most of the childcare provided by schools is rubbish. The bulidings have to be used for education during the day, it is almost impossible to transform it at 3.30 into a relaxing environment where children can feel secure and forget about the pressures of the day. For one, the children, staff and environment doesn't change, so for most it isn't even a change of scenery. Most afterschool care seems to be in a classroom, the hall, canteen or similar.

[LittleBearPad]

Get a grip horse

Women may have to work for financial reason or they may even, whisper it, want to work, shock horror.

I assume you are talking about the government wanting people to work - how exactly are they forcing them to?

[horsetowater]

Boffin I disagree but can't do so properly cos I'm on my phone. Land is throttled by the value placed on it because of what we are able to pay for it. If we can't pay for it the price goes down. The banks and dual incomes have pushed up our spending power artificially and now it is feeding on itself.

Nobody wins, nobody is better off. Yes women have always worked but not in a way that a bank would recognise, not in a way you can raise a debt on.

[Hulababy]

I suspect this is just yet another media thing to pit teachers and parents against one another.

It seems to totally ignore the fact that teachers are parents too, and they are indeed working parents. Their own children are among those in school and wrap around care.

Unless we believe - of course - that teachers only work 9am to 3pm again.....

[LittleBearPad]

For about 20/30 years Hercules from 1945 onwards. When this country was massively more sexist and racist than it is now yet this period is seen as some kind of golden age because men worked and women stayed at home ironing socks.

[horsetowater]

Not forgetting the added demand for our land through foreign investors which adds an unlimited upward trajectory.

How bad does it have to get before government does something? It's a self imposed enslavement and as usual the weakest in society suffer the brunt of it.

[cosikitty]

But it probably was the golden age of childhood.

[vestandknickers]

I think this article is useful because it talks about the needs of children and suggests that such long hours in childcare may not be good for them.

I don't see that as "bashing" parents who work long hours. I see it as an indictment of a society in which working hours are getting longer and longer and expectations on workers increasingly high. This, coupled with rising house prices is creating a situation in which some parents see wrap around childcare as there only option.

I do think parents who use wrap around childcare and who also have two cars, foreign holidays, a house full of gadgets, eat out regularly etc etc need to look at their priorities. I am also aware though that there are parents who are working long hours just to make ends meet and this is a problem with society, not the parents themselves.

I don't apologise for thinking that the best place for children is with their parents after school. They need to relax somewhere where they are loves, talk about the day, chat about other things, play, have a home cooked meal, see friends or extended family and do all the other things that family life gives and childcare doesn't.