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Original poster

effects of CC

294 replies

papillon · 12/03/2004 11:29

i just found this review in amazon.. does anyone agree ... disagree? I have heard of Gina Ford but not Elizabeth Pantley

...Australia the Association of Infant Mental Health have issued a warning against the method of "controlled crying" which she advocates as it can lead to psychological problems!! Gina's job is to train babies, she has no interest in the child's mental or physical (scheduled feeds can lead to dehydration and failure to thrive) well being for the future. She just wants her money for her quick fix methods! She's not even a mother herself, just a baby trainer. Babies aren't meant to be trained, they need to be nurtured and loved and leaving a baby to cry until it believes it has been abandoned and then shuts up to conserve energy is not my idea of caring for a loved one! Dissociation and learned helplessness are not pyschological problems i wish to instill in my baby for the sake of a full nights sleep! This woman makes me so cross! I second the reader (dated the 7th of november) who suggests a far kinder book to look at - "The no-cry sleep solution" by Elizabeth Pantley. At least she has had children so has some idea what she is talking about!

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stupidgirl · 13/03/2004 20:07

Haven't read the thread, but I agree with it, in fact, was it my review????

(and no, it wasn't actually...)

bloss · 14/03/2004 02:09

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GeorginaA · 14/03/2004 07:51

That's lovely bloss that she remembers your children's names Did you use the phone advisory service then?

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bloss · 14/03/2004 09:22

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Original poster
papillon · 14/03/2004 13:33

Have been reading the messages with interest.

Good to learn about GF, especially your personal experiences Bloss. Still reading what has been said about GF in a positive light, then looking at her book and then listening to my heart, I could not follow her techniques.

She sounds like a warm hearted woman who wants to help parents - but her book feels like hardline doctrine. When I first bought it I could not believe my eyeballs. I wanted to post it too her with a thanks but no thanks message.
But I have kept it and like all theories and beliefs in this world I will maybe use it with a grain of salt added. Following one idea 100% is not my savvy nor personally do I think that the world is a healthy place because of them.

So I guess I agree with some parts of the review I found in Amazon. While babies have to learn about life I am not into baby training even if they are nurtured and loved at the same time - could well be a mixed message right there...

I hope that I can remain flexible and develop with experience - comforting methods other than having to go through CC. I do not think dh or I are in that "place" mentally or emotionally. Perhaps I would have to be at my wits end to do it... more likely if number 2 baby decides to be an eventuality!

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GeorginaA · 14/03/2004 18:06

Wow. I'm very impressed, bloss!

It's funny, you're right papillon - the book comes across as very hardline (bad editor trying to make it stand out perhaps?) whereas in every interview I've read she seems much less dogmatic and practical.

GeorginaA · 14/03/2004 18:07

Um... that should read "much less dogmatic and MORE practical"

bloss · 14/03/2004 20:36

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GeorginaA · 14/03/2004 21:27

Damn, wish she had done a book with all the variations - would be particularly handy when trying to use the advice for a second child. It gets tricky to use when you don't want to curtail the first child's activities...

Wonder if we could persuade her to do a phone-book edition for people like me

bloss · 15/03/2004 03:18

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Ghosty · 15/03/2004 07:24

I am glad I caught up with this thread ... I normally avoid GF debates like the plague ... but Bloss' input has made me want to ask a question ...
I was a GF follower (slightly obsessive to be honest) with DS ... and it worked ... he turned from the grumpiest baby on the planet to a very contented baby within a week of putting her routines in place.
This time round (DD is now six weeks old) I have been determined to see if I can do without GF (although I do personally want a bit of routine sooner rather than later) and so far we are doing ok ... DD is a faily happy contented baby and has settled into her own patterns without my having to get stressed about times etc. I have taken a couple of things out of GF to make my nights easier and hence since 3 weeks DD has been in bed by 7pm every night and after waking her for a feed at 10.30pm she only wakes once in the night and a couple of times she has slept through to 7am.
BUT ... maybe Bloss, you can answer this for me ... The rigidity of GF's routine just doesn't help when you have more than one child. For example - at the moment 3 days a week DS has to be at kindy at 12.45pm ... HOW on earth can DD have her long nap in the middle of the day then? In two months time DS will go to kindy 5 mornings a week ... and has to be picked up at 12.30 ... If I wanted to do GF how could I?
Bloss, what do you think GF's variation on her routines would be in my situation?
Also ... As I re read the book last week I thought there is no way DD could cope with the routines as she can not last longer than 1 1/4 hours awake at a time at 6 weeks ... if I try to keep her awake she gets really upset ... so I would end up with a very grumpy baby rather than a contented one ...
Sorry ... this is a ramble ... perhaps this time round I ought to chuck the book??

GeorginaA · 15/03/2004 08:14

It will be just over 3 years apart, Bloss. I have the same issues as Ghosty in that ds will be at nursery and need picking up around 12.30ish. I'm tempted to maybe make the midday map pram-based to see if that helps but either way I won't get my 1hr to myself in the day because ds dropped his lunchtime nap a long while ago

That said, I may just delay GF to the summer holidays which won't be until long afterwards and get into a good routine in the holidays. Maybe go with an 8-8 routine or something. As I say, need to take a look at the book again really to remind myself of what the timings are...

handlemecarefully · 15/03/2004 09:22

I think the article is meaningless psychobabble.

I did controlled crying from 6 months - it took less than a week to establish a good sleeping pattern for my daughter. She is a very happy, loving cheerful child...but I guess that I had better prepare for her to be a maniacal axe murderer when she grows up because of the lasting scars left on her delicate phsyche by cc

bloss · 15/03/2004 09:43

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tallulah · 17/03/2004 22:32

Hercules- just a bit late, I'm afraid because I couldn't find this thread again!

Truby King was the child care guru when my mum was born, so why she then slavishly did the same I really don't know. I can only think that she was very much under the thumb of my grandma & my dad. From what she has said I think she couldn't bear to hear me crying but my dad wouldn't let her give in & "spoil" me.

She did try putting my babies out in the garden (born Feb & Sept) but I soon put a stop to that!

jmg · 17/03/2004 23:15

God Bloss no wonder I don't like the idea of Gina.
Two hours in a room by yourself during the day resting I'd never want my little boy to be apart from me for that long during the day if he was awake. We have so much fun things to do it would seem such a waste.

hercules · 18/03/2004 08:06

Have to second you jmg and make myself unpopular. Can't imagine 2 hours a day awake time on their own at any age. Does GF really say this? Def not for me!

Original poster
papillon · 18/03/2004 08:20

hello

Just been talking to my parents and asked them about Truby King. They said he founded Plunket. Maybe you all knew that . So he was looking out for the babies. But looks like some of his ideas were not so good - and taken to the extreme by some - then really BAD.

tallulah I am glad you resisted your Mum and as a result have lovely happy girl!

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hercules · 18/03/2004 08:28

Funnily enough my mum has always raved about how her mum used to put them out in the garden and my mum thought this was a good idea and did the same with us. Don't know what extent to though as she says she never let us cry. I'll have to ask her a bit more but very carefully so she doesnt think i'm trying to make her guilty.

Was GF influenced by this I wonder.

Original poster
papillon · 18/03/2004 08:38

Gina has probably developed her method from experience. She also refers to research done to support this.
Most experts do this and of course case studies which frequently seem to fill up baby books !!

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Bozza · 18/03/2004 08:48

When my DS started giving up naps at about 2.8 I used to make him sit on his bed and look at books for maybe an hour, going in 2/3 times to change his selection of books. This was because although he gave up naps he wasn't really ready to and was always knackered before bedtime, wouldn't eat his tea etc so he needed the quiet time. He has since then gone back to having naps and has at least two hours given the chance now at 3.1. So I'm glad I persevered with the idea of going to his bedroom. Nothing at all to do with Gina Ford, this by the way.

bloss · 18/03/2004 11:06

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bloss · 18/03/2004 11:09

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jmg · 18/03/2004 11:11

Bloss - I don't rember posting anything about your DS or his needs. As I recall I posted about my DS and what I beleive are his needs!

Original poster
papillon · 18/03/2004 11:11

my sisters ds still has naps at 3.5 years!!

probably good to have some quiet time when there is so much in life to stimulated about!

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