effects of CC

[papillon]

i just found this review in amazon.. does anyone agree ... disagree? I have heard of Gina Ford but not Elizabeth Pantley

...Australia the Association of Infant Mental Health have issued a warning against the method of "controlled crying" which she advocates as it can lead to psychological problems!! Gina's job is to train babies, she has no interest in the child's mental or physical (scheduled feeds can lead to dehydration and failure to thrive) well being for the future. She just wants her money for her quick fix methods! She's not even a mother herself, just a baby trainer. Babies aren't meant to be trained, they need to be nurtured and loved and leaving a baby to cry until it believes it has been abandoned and then shuts up to conserve energy is not my idea of caring for a loved one! Dissociation and learned helplessness are not pyschological problems i wish to instill in my baby for the sake of a full nights sleep! This woman makes me so cross! I second the reader (dated the 7th of november) who suggests a far kinder book to look at - "The no-cry sleep solution" by Elizabeth Pantley. At least she has had children so has some idea what she is talking about!

My DS2 is only two and a half, but we find that if he has even a short nap (e.g. ten minutes) during the day, he will be awake until 9 p.m.! He genuuinely does not seem to need much sleep. I used to feel guilty about how little sleep he had, but am coming to the conclusion that if he doesn't need it, there is no point in trying to force him to sleep.

He is totally different to DS1 who at the same age was still sleeping an hour during the day and 11.5-12 hours at night.

dinosaur, sounds like my dd ! she sleeps less than the prescribed averages for her age.

I think it's the way it comes across Bloss. To me it sounded like your ds had to stay there for 2 hours awake on his own and not allowed to leave the room. Of course every child is different and if he needs 2 hours rest then that is different! I was curious and still am to know whether gf says to do this?

I have to say that having dropped his nap for quite a while now, ds is showing signs of needing one in the afternoon again. Problem is "fitting it in" now - it's never the same time each day because of various activities. It's odd, he does seem to sleep better at night if he's had a nap during the day - even at 2yr10mths. Getting him to actually take a nap is another thing altogether though!!

Exactly Georgina. I am amazed that my DS has gone back to having naps (resigned myself to the end of that) and do also have trouble sometimes fitting them in. Last Friday we went to parent and child swimming and got home at 2 and I put him to bed. At 3.30 pm had a real problem waking him (very grumpy) to go visit my Grandad in hospital - but visiting time only until 5. Then he slept 12 hours at night and caught up by having 3 hours on Saturday afternoon.

But I understand Bloss because my DS is similar although not as extreme as hers. He will only sleep in a bed or very occasionally in a car but not in a car at bedtime. My friend has a DS the same age and she takes him shopping ALL DAY because he will nap in the pushchair while going round the shopping centre. Amazes me - wouldn't dare do that with DS!

Reading this thread has made me resolve that I must do better on daytime naps with DS3/DD1.

My DS2 has always been awful about naps. He never - and I do mean never - napped in his cot during the day. The only way I could ever get him to sleep during the day was rocking him in the pram, and even then he used to wake after half an hour and have to be rocked back to sleep.

Having not done Gina for either of them, am slightly tempted this time...just because I worry that at my advanced age, and with two children already, I won't be able to cope otherwise

Hercules

Can't find your co-sleepingzone

want to eulogise about it to like-minded

where are u all?

Jx

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Bloss

bloss, the rest in the middle of the day might well be a good idea. Some psychologists believe that kids are overstimulated & need a little down-time by themselves --a rest, or a quiet play by themselves in their room, or anything really that isn't adult stimulation or TV. I've never managed this with my extremely demanding ds, but often wonder if it's not a bad idea. . .

PS the cleverest child I knowshe's been reading complicated books since turning 2 and now, at 4, reads anything reallyhas a mother who also imposed the "rest time" once the child gave up her lunchtime nap. The child is well-adjusted, never over-tired, and very able to amuse herself. And apparently very happy. Her parents are both exceedingly clever, so I don't put her brilliance down to the lunchtime rest, but clearly it didn't hurt. . .

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Bloss, I laughed out loud at your nails and shopping comment

Well, I've been enforcing an afternoon nap again (at around 3pm-5pm for us, due to various activities) for the last few days and he's actually been sleeping through at night again!! He got up early today (6.20) because the wind blew the bins over and woke him up, but went back happily enough until "bunny was awake" at 7.15 (don't think he slept - just played).

Fingers crossed the trend lasts.

Do tend to feel guilty putting him up for a nap just after he's come home from nursery though... "hi kid, nice to see you... now go up to your room " (and before anyone gets worried, yes we get plenty of playtime together!)

Bloss I was very interested by your description of your NT child. I have two like that. I have to take great care that they don't get overstimulated, as it always ends in upset and tears. I have had to cancel lots of trips etc when the kids get over stimulated. I don't do this as a punishment, but because the kids get hyper and unhappy. people with 'easy' kids don't always undertand and think that I am just being an over strict mummy.

My MIL told me at one point that the kids were over stimulated and that I was doing too much with them, and she was quite right. They don't need lots of high powered stuff, just low key trips to the park etc.

I have always kept to a good routine and my kids are happier as a result.

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And our kids are NT, so we only have the smallest problems compared to parents of kids with ASD.

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Bloss you are right! It does seem a waste of time to me and I would rather spend time playing or doing things with my DS than have him up in his room playing on his own. He often chooses to play in his room by himself but that is different IMO from imposing it on him.

You clearly believe something different is appropriate for your child. I wouldn;t dream of making assumptions about your time and how you spend it.

I started my comment by saying no much wonder I never liked the idea of Gina. Not that she is crap for everyone.

The time I have with my DS is very special to me - its the only time I get alone with him while my DD is at school. I would rather spend the time baking cakes, reading books, sword fighting, snuggled up watching a video - whatever. Thats what I think is right for my child.

Is everyone who posts on this thread supposed to have the same points of view?!?

I wrotea message on this thread about my concern as to the way Gina Ford was implemented and someone picked me up for the use of the word 'natural' for cuddling a child to sleep. I don't think it is unnatural as it happens, although I do think that's splitting hairs!

However, having read another thread on the subject of CC, I an only say I am totally convinced that the GF school of thought has the potential to lead to very damaging parenting.

Some poor woman was trying to do cc with her baby and it resulted in two hours of screaming, leading to vomiting and shaking. The mother was clearly concerned that this might not be the right thing. Yet a whole succession of people urged her to persist! I don't think this is in any way healthy. In fact I think that treating a baby like this is bordeline abusive. I don't blame a confused parent but those who can't see past a 'method' to the reality of an individual child. I have always thought GF had something to offer people in the later months of the first year who still found they were exhausted. But a baby that is vomiting with distress does not deserve to be perpetually left. I don't think it takes a child psychologist to realise that this is merely shutting down a vital line of communication bewteen the baby and child. It's very disturbing indeed. Personally I would have thought if your baby persists in not sleeping and doens't seem able to settle themselves with some gentle cc then it's time to see a health visitor/ doctor and talk through thoroughly how the day goes and see if there are better ways of reducing night wakings. To advocate that this type of by the book method will only work if the mother 'toughs' it out is apaling.

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So bloss, you are telling me that it is perfectly ok for a child to be left to cry for two hours until it vomits - because it is 'strong-willed'?

So let me get you right then Bloss - in cyberspace I am not supposed to make any comments about how I choose to spend time with my child just in case other people feel I am undermining theor choices by stating my preferences.

Equally I could run a very good argument that you and others on this thread have made their decision to put their children to rest in their rooms are looking at those of us who don't in a moral high ground kind of way.

There is nothing inflammetory about stating how I choose to spend time with my child. You can make whatever choices you like. I am not judging you for whatever you choose. Equally I ask you not to judge me!

And just because you seem determined to use words to suit your own point of view, I actually said 'I would rather spend time playing or doing things with my DS than have him up in his room playing on his own' not as you paraphrased it 'I
putting them in a room to play by themselves'.

Perhaps I do not need to express my self more carefully - perhaps you need to read what is written more carefully, and without assuming that everyone with a different point of view is judging you!

Since I have to do something I am going to have to get my point in here cos cant stay on net.

I totally disagree with YOUR perception of what vomiting and crying means. I think this is a totally uncivilised way of treating babies. I don't totally knock cc because I don't think for a second that this is what it all about.

As for nannies writing books (and particularly nanies without children), quite frankly I think people who need nannies to rear their own children are already expressing a certain amount of detachment from their children.

Motherhood is an experience that includes learning - that knowledge can only be obtained frmo being a mother - for a start it is a biological process. Gina Ford, if she is the experienced woman she is, should be able to acceopt that fact (I totally respect scummymummy's point on this - even my own nephew doesn't raise the same feelings in me as my own babies). I am surprised she doesn't.

There is an essential component missing fom what she has observed in her charges and that is the awareness one gets from having a child, which teahces you things about yourself, your child and other human beings.

The mother in question was clearly completely baffled by what was going on and felt instinctively that it was wrong.

What your argument seems to be saying is that because a child doesn't CONFORM to Gina Ford's treatment, it is strong-willed and expresses this through distress.

How about it is 'upset'? 'unhappy'?

I wouldn't allow a fully competent adult to get to that pitch of distress.

The method is at fault - not the child.

Whoops managed to lose part of that post. It shoudl have read...

And just because you seem determined to use words to suit your own point of view, I actually said 'I would rather spend time playing or doing things with my DS than have him up in his room playing on his own' not as you paraphrased it '[putting them in a room to play by themselves] does seem a waste of time to me'.

Perhaps I do not need to express my self more carefully - perhaps you need to read what is written more carefully, and without assuming that everyone with a different point of view is judging you!