effects of CC

[papillon]

i just found this review in amazon.. does anyone agree ... disagree? I have heard of Gina Ford but not Elizabeth Pantley

...Australia the Association of Infant Mental Health have issued a warning against the method of "controlled crying" which she advocates as it can lead to psychological problems!! Gina's job is to train babies, she has no interest in the child's mental or physical (scheduled feeds can lead to dehydration and failure to thrive) well being for the future. She just wants her money for her quick fix methods! She's not even a mother herself, just a baby trainer. Babies aren't meant to be trained, they need to be nurtured and loved and leaving a baby to cry until it believes it has been abandoned and then shuts up to conserve energy is not my idea of caring for a loved one! Dissociation and learned helplessness are not pyschological problems i wish to instill in my baby for the sake of a full nights sleep! This woman makes me so cross! I second the reader (dated the 7th of november) who suggests a far kinder book to look at - "The no-cry sleep solution" by Elizabeth Pantley. At least she has had children so has some idea what she is talking about!

Two, I agree that it is not just you who has confused GF with CC, the original post on Amazon does this very well. Also others assume since GF is quite strict about sleep routines, then she must advocate CC. When infact she categorically states the opposite in her books.

I think you will find that plenty of people have said that CC is not about leaving a child to cry for 2 hrs.

Dinasaur said 'The whole point about "controlled crying" (certainly as advocated by Richard Ferber, never read GF) is that you do not leave the baby alone to think he/she has been abandoned - you choose an interval of time - you can make it as short as 1 minute - and you go in to the baby at each interval, talk to the baby, pat baby's back etc - you just don't pick the baby up.' in an early post on this thread

Nutcracker said 'I don't particularly like CC but did use it with both of my dd's. With dd 1 i only left her for two minutes ata atime slowly increasing it, but no longer than 6 minutes. It worked within 3 days. '

GillW admidted CC didn't work for them and that her baby ended up making himeself sick. That is really sad, and something that is unusual - obviously CC was not right in this case.

Pappillon said 'My sister left her baby to cry the other nite for a whole hour and then she vomited (nearly 4 months) I guess it freaked me out as I do not leave my dd to cry. So the whole thought of CC is abit scary.'

To which there were loads of posts saying THIS IS NOT CC. 4 months is far too young to try CC, no wonder Pappillion wouldn't want to try CC, if I saw this I would be anti if it was presented to me as CC.

Bloss actually posted 'CC is actually a remedial technique for when bad sleeping habits have already developed and need to be broken. By definition, only older babies can have developed strong habits, so the longer periods required for CC would only be needed with older babies.'

It seems to me that people had already said CC was not about 2 hrs of screaming, it is you who thinks it is. I don't think people have debated the pros and cons of vomiting, just expressing their optinions.

Two, I don't know what you are talking about tbh. I haven't seen this thread at all. THIS thread is not about that - it was started when Papillon posted a review on Amazon saying that Gina Ford's book is all about cc, and that cc is evil and cruel and that anyone who does it is unloving and will make their baby mentally ill and disturbed for life. I disagree very strongly with this.

Crunchie

I have listened to people's opinions not stymied them, but have had quite a few people jump down my neck for expressing mine - which was that I read a thread with a debate on blah blah blah

I have never had a simple direct response to my exact thoughts, just rather overdefensive reactions to any suggestion that cc can be nmisinterpreted and taken to far!

I won't return to this discussion - you'll be dleighted to know becuase it can't seem to get past a certain point

I'm not comparing a baby to a toddler - why do you think I am????

Well, I've now looked through all of today's messages and can't find a single thread about a two month old being left to cry for hours to general acclaim. I am now even more baffled.
I cannot comment on something I haven't seen, and do not intend to condemn cc on that basis.

I fully agree with you that leaving a child to cry it out is not what constitutes CC. It is undenyably true that no one method works for all children. I think what has annoyed parents on this thread who have used CC is the assumption that this means that they have left their child to cry for two hours.

I have used CC with both of mine. Never got above 10 mins, and it took a matter of days each time. For my kids it worked. Interestingly ds didn't cry until he vomited, and he is a puke master! And can I just second the point that a cild vomiting does not mean, of itself, that the child is distressed. Ds can still vomit at the drop of a hat. He would projectile vomit his last feed every night, yell untill I fed him some more andthen go to sleep. Hell on the carpets but it didn't upset him. I would fully accept that leaving a child to cry for 2 hours ending in vomiting would indicate that the child was distressed, but this is Not CC!

Did find lots of threads with people saying, you could do cc or you could do X or Y, and one where people (ie me!) said, 'I think you will find cc too stressful, and anyway don't think you need it right now, and I personally would carry on with the night feed atm' - but I don't suppose that fits your argument that "people who adopt this idea (cc) seem utterly unable to accept that it is not always the best thing to do, even if a child is clearly made extremely distressed."

thread about leaving to cry

I thinbk the confusion about cc and gf is here. Someone seems to sat that going cold turkey on gf is leaving 9 week old to cry for 25 minutes and also there is a bit about leaving a baby tp cry for 2 hours for gf's nap. Well, I know now this is not GFs way and is this where the confusion has come from?

Now I'm really confused - I've read the whole thread and there is no mention at all of a baby vomiting. And far from 'everyone telling her to persist whatever the cost' there are dozens of suggestions on the thread offering lots of different ideas including wearing a sling, pushing in a pram, etc etc - and plenty of outright comdemnation of Marsup for leaving her baby to cry in a cot, even though she says quite clearly that she continually comforted the baby AND that the baby cried even harder when being held.

I know its not the vomit one but I cant find that one and I thought that this one might answer some of the confusion as it did confuse me about the whole cc and leaving to cry!

It was Miranda2 who confused me near the start of the thread.

Are you sure you didn't just imagine the other thread

Wasnt me who said it first (i dont think so anyway). I have skimmed this thread and papillion says something abot her sister leaving baby to cry for an hour and it vomiited. Is that the one ?

Lol Aloha at you reaading the whole wrong thread i posted.

Oops still got wrong one. Just inore me.

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Hey Bloss...You may be pleased to know that I (very loosly mind) today (sort of) used the GF sleep pattern. concept

She snacks at sleep the majority of time.
And I really mulled over what you said Dinosaur about if the opportunity arose you would resolve to do better on daytime naps.
So am trying to be more proactive about that and really encouraged her to sleep more over the lunch time. Hard work but we got there.

Like your ds Bloss - she wanted to sleep - but she is so out of sleep loop that it was tough going. I stayed in the room cause she was having a hard time going into deeper sleep.

Still I cannot leave her to cry all that much. It may not be every ones cup of tea - but I also take her astrological chart into consideration - which shows she needs LOTS of reassurance. I wish there were baby books out there that catered to the spirit of a child.
There are books about the unborn child and the spiritual connection that a child can have with its parents - but none that I am aware of for once it is born. Anybody ever heard of such a book?

Re my sister and her leaving the baby to cry - I have been delicating giving her email info links re leaving your baby to cry. And my mum and I said very causally that maybe she needed some reassurance. Seems to have done the trick (abit) she has been not ignoring her to the same extent (well I hope).
I do realise that leaving your baby to cry and CC are not the same technique. But when they vomit it seems like the same end result ie ... vomit! And to the fairly green and uninitiated mother that I am - its like dosing me up with a recipe for night terrors.

I am still learning alot from this thread and can understand more and appreciate for many parebts that the short term stress that CC creates is nothing compared to continual stress on both the parents and child if proper sleep is not being achieved.
That said - I am not keen to try it and hope that I will never have to be in the position to feel that it is the only option left. Finger crossed.

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