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Original poster

unwelcome behaviour (understatement) from friend's child - awkward situation

82 replies

girlsandboys · 31/07/2006 16:45

(regular poster but using assumed name,just in case)

am in major quandry and would value views. will try to post fairly bland facts as I find this very upsetting.
basically, DD1 (aged 4) went with DH and DD2 (16mths) to party at friends house last week.I came later after work.
DD1 and friends DS (aged5) often play together and we have been on holiday for few days together previously. They have always seemed to get on well.
at the party friend's DS had number of schoolmates there too. DD1 only girl (apart from DD2 who was with me or DH all the time) at party.
all the kids were playing together upstairs as they often do at this friends (and indeed most of my friends houses) , two boys including friends DS running around with no clothes on when I arrived.
to cut long story short we got home and DD1 told us her bottom was sore when she weed. after some gentle questioning it emerged that friend's DS had pulled her trousers and pants down and poked her vagina with his finger repeatedly. She was red and a bit sore. She said she had asked him to stop and he didn't and (what confused her more than anything) he wouldn't say sorry afterwards.
we raised with our friends next days and they quizzed their DS who admitted to this in the end. seemingly the other boys were egging him on. friends were completely shocked and very apologetic and have been talking to the boy about it since. I know they will be dealing with this as a very serious matter
we agreed that they should phone and he apologise to DD. This happened and she said it was ok when he said sorry.
Our DD seems fine now and doesn?t seem to have given it another thought. Thank god. She seems absolutely fine physically and it doesn't seem to have had any immediately obvious emotional repercussions.
In ordinary circumstances I would just leave it and not see the boy for a while, then closely supervise ever moment of any contact they have.
The awful thing is we are due to go abroad with this family at the end of this week and stay in VERY close quarters with them for a week .
They have said they will cancel if we want them to, we can still go without financial (or other) repercussion. Indeed their immediate reaction was that they shouldn't come. After initially thinking there was NO WAY we wanted them to come (although we didn't tell them this) we said to them that it might be ok if we all watched the kids really carefully at all times.
However now I am not sure. I will feel very awkward if have to tell them not to come and feel as though might be overreacting. But also I don't want to underreact. Just want what is best for DD...(and I suppose if I am honest don't want loads of stress on our holiday)
Can the combined wisdom of mumsnet help?

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fairyjay · 02/08/2006 13:52

Maybe your dh is conscious that having said 'it's OK, we'll all go', it's now more difficult to change plans. But at the end of the day, you dd's feelings must come first. I think you are absolutely right not to overplay the situation though, and let her become a 'victim'.

Original poster
girlsandboys · 02/08/2006 14:36

I agree with all that you guys have said - whether or not she is responding to our (underplayed) concerns or just trying to exercise the "power of the 4 year old" or whether she is experiencing real (even if unarticulable) worries about this she is giving a fairly strong message at the moment and one I will be insisting that we respect

(she has asked DH twice this morning whether he has phoned the boys parents to tell them not to come)

I can see it all blowing up with DH though as I do think he is doing a bit of what overrun suggests and keeping his head in the sand a bit

neither of us generally tends to deal with things on "emotional response" basis so it does feel a bit weird, even to me, but I do feel strongly about taking cue from DD and don't want to take any risks with her being uncomfortable

DH has left a message with the father of the boy asking him to call him (he thinks the mum might get too upset) so we shall see.

I just HATE things like this, thanks for bearing with me as I agonise...

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Original poster
girlsandboys · 02/08/2006 14:36

can you tell I am not getting much work done?

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fairyjay · 02/08/2006 14:41

When something important is going on in your family, concentrating on work comes a very poor second!

Hope your dh can speak to your friend soon, and then I'm sure you'll feel much more settled about it.

mousiemousie · 02/08/2006 14:47

If you have a constructive and open relationship with the boy's mother then you will be able to work this through just fine on holiday . If you don't, or if you have different attitudes and approaches to parenting which don't mesh well then cancel the holiday arrangment.

Chandra · 02/08/2006 14:49

Don't go, at the moment is not important, she really doesn't understand what has happened but when she does she may feel you have failed her by pretending everything was OK. It isn't.

If these kids have meat each other at school I would advise for a talk with someone there, other children may be in danger, actually, they can be in danger themselves.

Chandra · 02/08/2006 14:50

meat=meet

Original poster
girlsandboys · 02/08/2006 15:01

thanks - they don't go to school together so no worry there

we will be going on holiday anyway - it is our annual family holiday to a place where all of DHs family will be and there is no way WE are not going

these friends were just coming along, to stay in our place, for a week

DH still can't get in touch with boys dad and just hung up on me when I suggested he try the mum.

(I am at work with no privacy so can't call, he is at home. I would have phoned them at home last night, after DD has raised these objections but DH persauded me it was unfair to tell them this just before bedtime. Does he think there is a good time?)

They are supposed to be leaving on Friday, I don't think we can leave it much later

aaarrrgh!

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Bozza · 02/08/2006 15:02

Sounds like DH is trying to back out of doing anything.

Original poster
girlsandboys · 02/08/2006 15:03

mousie mousie we do have good relationship and have similar parenting styles, but i just think it is so recent and since DD is articulating a wish not to share her holiday with this boy I think I need to listen to this

I wish I could share your confidence that it would all be ok though, it would save lots of awkwardness telling friends they can't come

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Original poster
girlsandboys · 02/08/2006 15:04

bozza - think you are right there. I could kill him for adding to my anguish right now...

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mumandlovingit · 02/08/2006 15:15

ive been watching your thread and hoping that things wouldve been easier for you by the other family cancelling.im sorry but if it was my son that had done that then i wouldnt want to subject the family to a joint holiday so soon, even if it was jst to distance the children for a while.
i really think you need to take in what your dd has said and her feelings.if you carry on with the holiday with them she may resent you and feel that you're saying its ok for the boy to do those things to her as you're acting as if nothings happened.maybe the same feelings from her if he had beaten her for example.not sexual abuse but little girls and boys still know that that area of their body isnt usually touched by other people etc and may be unsure of why he touched her there?
surely if you go and retend nothings happened the boy will also take it that what he did was ok??
i think its far too soon and whether ts your dh or yourself who cancels i think it needs to be done, ust to reassure your child that she's safe and is being listened to.it must be on her mind to a degree or she wouldn't suddenly say she didnt want him there.
if they're true friends they will realise the feelings behing this event and understand the implications of the holiday together so soon and understand that things could gradually be introduced again once back.if not and they get angry etc then i would start to worry about their feelings towards what's happened and wonder if they realise the seriousnesd of it and the impact its had on your child.
good luck.dont let your dh back out of telling them (mine does the same when i ask him to confront someone etc, obviously over different matters though) if he does back out, have the courage to do it yourself.your dd comes first.

Original poster
girlsandboys · 02/08/2006 15:21

thanks mumandlovingit

don't worry - in my mind now the other family are not coming, it is simply a matter of how, when and who breaks it to them

I had hoped it would be DH, this morning but it may have to be me, this evening

Men!

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Bozza · 02/08/2006 15:24

I think your DH is being unfair to you and the other family by putting this off. But I have to admit I would probably do this myself. I am dreadful at confronting issues.

Original poster
girlsandboys · 02/08/2006 15:30

me too Bozza, terrible at confrontation - so I find it doubly annoying that he is being like this because I WOULD have phoned last night, even though I would have hated it

looks like I am going to end up phoning tonight anyway, having had a day of worry and giving them a day less to cancel/try to get some money back

still, mustn't let this degenerate into a DH bashing episode, tempting though I'll admit that is

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Bozza · 02/08/2006 15:31

agree Dh bashing would serve no purpose and with the added stress would easily get out of hand.

cupcakes · 02/08/2006 15:33

Have just read this thread and don't have much advice to add. I initially thought that it might be good to continue with your holiday plans as normal but seeing your dd's recent reaction I am now not so sure. The bullying aspect of the incident is really horrible. My ds is 6 and his best friend is a girl and I would be horrified if he joined his friends in intimidating her like this. To an extent I can understand the curiousity of what happened but it is the fact that he wouldn't stop when she asked him to which worries me. I had some incidents with fairly innocent sexually related curiosity when I was younger (about 7) and I have really remembered them because they did feel wrong at the time. My parents never knew about this so I never felt judged but even to me it felt dirty. Your dd may well be feeling this now and is suffering from that as well as the bullying.
Consequently I would cancel their visit. Hopefully your friends will understand that it is not a personal rejection, she (and you) just need more time.
Will your dd know that she is the catalyst for cancelling them? I just wonder if there is a way you can tell her they aren't coming without her feeling that it was all her doing.

Original poster
girlsandboys · 02/08/2006 15:37

bozza - DEFINITELY runs risk of getting out of hand

cupcakes - thanks, we have tried not to betray the fact that she is actually the catalyst and have just said that we must phone friends to make sure they can get time off work to come, and that they might not be able to...that's how we will explain it, although I feel she might suspect something now as she was asking DH this morning whether he had called yet to "tell them" not to come

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Original poster
girlsandboys · 02/08/2006 15:37

bozza - DEFINITELY runs risk of getting out of hand

cupcakes - thanks, we have tried not to betray the fact that she is actually the catalyst and have just said that we must phone friends to make sure they can get time off work to come, and that they might not be able to...that's how we will explain it, although I feel she might suspect something now as she was asking DH this morning whether he had called yet to "tell them" not to come

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Original poster
girlsandboys · 02/08/2006 15:38

sorry about double post - new laptop FAR too responsive for my liking

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cupcakes · 02/08/2006 15:53

Good luck for tonight. I'm glad that at least now you are pretty definate on your decision. Enjoy your holiday and hopefully your dd will be able to put it behind her soon.

NotAnOtter · 02/08/2006 17:10

good luck for tonight i think you are doing the right thing.
if one of mine had been poked in the nose till it was sore i would be cross........

Cam · 02/08/2006 19:09

Wish you strength with this girlsandboys.

I wouldn't be going on holiday with the boy after what happened as I hinted at in my previous response to you.

The other family's reaction is fairly irrelevant in this situation, please stop feeling bad about that aspect of it, just tell them that it won't work out at the moment.

Its tough, I too am useless at confrontation but its something that has to be done.

Original poster
girlsandboys · 02/08/2006 23:39

DH did talk to boy's dad in the end and he was great about it, said that he wouldn't even let it be our decision but that it was up to them to decide not to go in the light of DDs comments and that that was what they were doing. He told DH not to feel apologetic at all.

He also said it might not be any harm to let the little boy know (in more than words) that actions like these can have repercussions

I do feel really sorry for the boy, it was just silliness that got out of hand, but we can't risk DD being upset by him again

we'll meet up with the other family when we get back, and hopefully they'll get back on a friendly basis again soon, although I doubt it will ever be the same really

just feel sorry for my mates that they are being done out of a holiday really

poor silly boy

thanks for the support guys, think I'd have lost it today without mn

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joanna4 · 02/08/2006 23:49

Maybe now this has some conclusion you might sleep better tonight,have a better day tomorrow and look forward to you relaxing holiday with your family.Glad it settled amicably in the end
Hugs to you all.