My Concern over a little boy, suspected neglect.

[mookymim]

Hi Please could you give me some advice over a growing concern I have for a little boy in our neighbourhood.I'll give you a bit of the history.
I met this little boy and his mum at a toddler class she was introduced via a friend although my friend doesn't really know her that well. His mum is a vegan and has had an eating disorder in the past, her little boy who is now 3 has been kept on a strict vegan diet all his life. He is very sleight for his age and looks pale. The issue here isn't a vegan diet I'm just not sure he's getting enough food and nutrients as I have witnessed him eating food from the floor and stealing leftovers from other childrens plates. Here are some of the things that have caused me concern over the past year.

never being allowed to eat the party food at childrens parties, being told 'no' and being forced as the other children enjoy the cakes etc

eating food from the floor

Not having mealtime routines or bedtime boundaries.

He goes to bed with his parents sleeps in their bed and is allowed to stay up while they watch inappropriate programmes.

My friend saw him a few weeks ago she said he looked awful as his curly hair had been' hacked off' apparently the mother had attempted to cut his hair herself but it was all patchy, short bits, shaved bits etc...

He has many allergies and food intollerances.

My little boy took an unusual dislike to him and seemed unnerved by him,9they were 2 at the time)

More recently they called round my friends house and who made her daughter and the little boy a sandwich, he ate it and then started to eat her daughters leftovers, my friend asked if he would like another sandwich the little boy said yes because he was hungry at this point his mother said 'no dont give him another he's had enough' despite the little boy saying that he was hungry.

His mum is very defensive and quick to anger, she is aggressive and I imagine a lot of people would shy away from being forthright with her. There is a Dad present but I have witnessed him being very much 'put in his place' and to be honest he seems a bit ground down.

I have voiced my concerns to my friend and her partner and they also said they were concerned but didnt think it was as serious as abuse. They have witnessed affection and love coming from the mother in question and my friend said he had been spoilt at Christmas with lots of toys.
When the Pelker case first came to light this little boy came to my mind straight away especially when hearing how the mother had duped the nursery staff by claiming he was on a 'special diet'

I dont want to jump to conclusions or stir up trouble but I have an awful feeling in my gut. Perhaps it's not conscious abuse but more the results of a mother with mental health issues regarding food and her own body. She's imposing her own food issues onto her son, abuse by proxy? I just cant stop thinking about this little boy. I get the feeling that people think I'm being over protective and I'm also aware that I no longer see this boy or his mother so must of my information is second hand.
I'd be most grateful if anyone could advise me on what to do as regards this situation. thank you.

U do however need to b sure ur concern is genuine not just fuelled by a friend that isn't keen on someone else's parenting style that likes to talk behind her back that's my issue with this one. I'm not saying op friend is doing that but that is the way I'm reading it as this is from what I have understood where op is hearing the information. No one on here would like to find out they've been reported by someone bcos they're doing things differently and I'm sure I'm not the only person that hears stories about ss wrongly removing children I believe panorama covered this week (didn't watch it )and think that is one of my worst nightmares. I know this is rare and on the flip side if some one had spoke up about baby p for example things may have been different

From 3rd hand I'm not sure what I'd think, and words on a page are no substitute for being there, but as said it's not your job to be sure. You have concerns.

The bit about how she behaves to her husband and him seeming ground down would count as another point in support of reporting it and I would certainly mention that when doing so.

Witnessing affection doesn't negate concerns, really.

You're right mummyto2, being wrongly reported must be a nightmare for parents.

But a bigger nightmare is a child who is being abused or neglected.

I would always, always err on the side of caution and report if I wasn't sure; from what the OP has said, and the fact that she's concerned enough to post here, I advise her to do the same.

Op did you speak to SS?

Tethers she said "He's very sleight (slight) for his age" not that he is underweight. It's all a bit sketchy isn't it...this is someone she's not even seeing any more!

Thank you for all your comments, I did say in my original post that this wasn't a vegan issue. I have lots of vegan friends with vegan children and I am a vegetarian myself so I understand the benefits of a vegan diet. I came on here to ask for help really as I share all the concerns raised, is it just a relaxed parenting style, is he underweight due to allergies, is eating food off the floor a bad thing? (Not eating from a plate on the floor) I've asked myself all off these questions many times. Yet I still get a sinking feeling. True I haven't witnessed things with my own eyes for the past 4 months but I trust my friend she is not malicious and I know her concerns are genuine . I have been on the NSPCC website today to find out more information I have also talked with a Social Worker friend.
I hear the very genuine concerns from people about reporting a case that may be innocent and I have to admit I feel very torn now as to report or not. Perhaps I do need more first hand evidence rather than just acting on gut feelings.

"Perhaps I do need more first hand evidence rather than just acting on gut feelings."

mookymin, you don't need more first hand evidence- SS might, but it's their job to collect it, not yours.

Sorry to sound harsh, but what you describe is enough to warrant calling SS, even if they decide it warrants no further action.

Ultimately, it's your decision but please remember, you don't have to be the judge and jury here. You are deciding whether or not to report, not convict.

you could maybe phone NSPCC if phoning SS seems too full on.

Presumably what your friend is telling you is in keeping with what you did witness yourself?

Op from what you say in your most recent post, your friend is in a better position to call the helpline surely....otherwise it's all a bit second hand no?

If it helps, last year a neighbour told us that our next-door neighbour had reported us to social services for child neglect.

My reaction was to contact social services to check what records they held on our family (answer = none, fwiw).

I took the view that I would want anybody who was concerned about my DS to report so that it could be checked out.

Although, if it had turned out she had reported us, I'll be honest, I would have limited the next-door neighbour's future contact with our DS.

If social services get involved and there is no problem then nothing is lost. I have a friend who works for nspcc they get calls from concerned neighbours etc and sometimes it was spot on. I'd report it as you'll regret it if you don't and there is something going on

Haven't read past the original post, however you should ALWAYS act on child neglect/abuse concerns.

You don't need hard evidence - that's the job of Social Services/other authorities. I think we should be more prepared to trust our instincts/gut feel.

From just reading what you have written I wouldn't be able to form an opinion, obviously.

But as an ex vegan cosleeping mother who probably on paper sounds a lot like this lady.. I still think you need to report any concerns you may have. I have full trust in our social services, it is very rare that they slip up and contrary to popular belief.. They don't take children away willy nilly.

I would much rather live in a world where children are looked out for, than adults just mind their own business. Even if that meant being under the watchful eye of SS.

The sandwich probably wasn't vegan, so Mum didn't want him eating another one.

My kids eat things off the floor (so do I sometimes), co-slept, often didn't eat (junky) party food, were vegan for a while, have homegrown haircuts. You sound judgemental OP.

The only real worry I would have is about the mum's aggressiveness, but maybe she is just fed up of being misunderstood.

please report this

you are not making judgement on the family

you must just state facts

I would rather be investigate 1000 times and one child was saved somewhere, ignore the above poster

Not all children taking food are neglected. My DS3, who DOES have allergies, is going through a state at preschool of trying to take other people's food (most frequently yoghurts, as he is dairy allergic they look GOOD to a 2yo that doesn't understand that they could make him very ill indeed...).

If she is a strict vegan, then the majority of party food may well not be vegan. Though the limiting of second helpings at other peoples houses does sound odd, I will admit.

Just to say, though, it is quite common for 2-3yo's with allergies to 'scavenge' if the food is one they are allergic to, and is therefore absent from their diet. Even more so if it is a sweet or biscuit that they can't eat. It's a developmental stage for those with restricted diets.

My DS3 has PLENTY of food, and I would never withhold second helpings of a 'safe' food if he was asking for it (well, within reason - an apple would be fine, a second helping of sweets not so much, as it's empty calories)

And I HAVE been reported to SS by someone who didn't believe that my DS3's allergies were real. And even though that was easily proven by his skin prick test results, and allergist reports, and visits to the NHS allergy specialist dietician, SS don't disappear that easily.

I had a whole year of meetings etc, every 3 months, simply because one person didn't ask to see DS3's allergist reports and disbelieved me. And a CIN meeting (though rapidly downgraded to a TAC meeting) can be a very scary thing. Even more so , I would guess, if you have a more 'alternative' lifestyle, and previous MH issues.

They could force her to feed her DS a non-vegan diet or risk removal, for example.

AND my DS3 IS visibly underweight. Doesn't mean he isn't getting enough to eat - just means that he is very active, and on a very restricted diet.

HOWEVER, and this is a big however, you would not be wise to totally ignore your 'gut feelings' on this. It wouldn't kill you to find out who the allergist is at your local hospital, and then ask her who her DS sees. If she says he doesn't see an allergist, or gives a different name, that would set alarm bells ringing for me.

Only you can know how much your 'gut feeling' is troubling you. The factors that you have mentioned possibly wouldn't set off alarm bells for me. But then that is hard to say for sure, as I don't know the family involved.

That sounds awful couthy

Makes you wonder what would happen to someone who couldn't prove the allergies or intolerances and was made to feed the kid stuff that made them ill and then get Blame for harming them :(

A vegan diet fir instance, the busy could react very uncomfortably to a sudden introduction of meat or dairy.

The body

Exactly. I had to endure a meeting of SW's and a HV and lots of other people telling me that I was 'overprotective' of my DS3, and that I shouldn't worry about raking him to a toddler group that I had tried, and discounted as unsafe after he had reactions both times. (the set-up wasn't conducive to those with severe allergies)

The tune soon changed once they had had time to assess his allergy reports, which I gave him copies of. Still had to have 3 more meetings, every 3 months though, before we were signed off.

Thanks Couthy, what an awful experience you had to go through. You have certainly given me reason to be cautious.

I would def report it to ss. If the mother is doing nothing wrong then theres no harm done by covering yourself. Imagine how you would feel if he died and all you had done was procrastinated. I would do it anyonomously though and not tell anyone else as if this behaviour is as evident as you say it could have been anyone who reported it. Do the right thing