Why can't I go out and leave my 3 year old asleep on his own in the house?

[FrannyandZooey]

Don't worry, I am not about to do this. But I have been musing about risk and safety recently and I am wondering if this really is as terribly unsafe as we all think it is. He doesn't wake up and will be asleep for 90 mins or more. Even if he did, he is a sensible child and is not going to fall down the stairs or drink bleach or anything. He would be worried that I was not there (which is my main reason for not doing it).

I know the argument is "what if there was a fire?"

But there isn't a fire, is there? How many fires start at random when there is no-one in the house but a toddler, fast asleep? I can see there is a small risk here - but it seems tiny to me. How does it compare with taking children out in the car? Crossing the road? Air travel? Being savaged by a dog?

As I say, please don't think I am about to go out and leave him - I'm not. But can someone explain to me why this would be absolutely unacceptable for me to do so, because I'm not getting it.

I dont understand why people would want to do it / want others to find it acceptable. To have a child means that you will be responsible for that child until they are old enough to be responsible themselves. And I dont personally feel that children can be left alone. As somebody points out, childrens view on time is different to an adults, and a parents view of what their children can do / cope with is not always correct.
The majority of food places now do takeaway. The majority of shops do deliveries. The odd trip to the shop to get milk / bread - I always took dd with me if it was an emergency or asked dh to pick some up on his way home if I could do without for a bit.

I have to admit, the thought of leaving a three year old alone horrifies me. I have left a baby, sleeping in a cot when I knew it was very unlikely he would wake up, and as I said earlier, I left my sleeping three year old recently with his 8 and 10 year old brothers, but I wouldnot leave my 3 year old if he was awake.

I still would like to know when they can be left alone though as I feel I am on the verge of this with ds1 and would be interested what other people do.

And what age would that be? Roughly?

F and Z - yes equally oculd be cultural rather than instinctive - main point was that I don;t know what it is but it's not rational assessment of risk, that;'s sure

For me, the age at which I decided DS1 could be left alone was when he went to secondary school, on the basis that he might easily come home whilst I'm collecting the others from school and therefore I had little choice. If I'm prepared for him to be in the house alone at that time, I have to accept that he is old enough to be left at other times. DS2 finds this really hard to accept, but tough.

DG, I think it depends on the child's responsibility, and willingness to be left. As I said, I have left ds very briefly since he was 7 or 8, and now he's 11 I will happily leave him for an hour. He's a) very responsible, and b) very lazy, so would always prefer to stay at home than be dragged out.

englandflag, I agree. I think we are in grave danger of smothering all sense of independence in our children if we feel they can never be out of our sight for 5 minutes.

Agreed, hat.

You see Freckle, for me I feel that is rather old. I remember coming home from school when still at primary school and letting myself in - no-one home - although some member of my family would come home shortly afterwards.

My children already walk to school by themselves (there are three of them but the oldest (10)would walk by himself if for any reason he had to). He goes with his 8 yo brother to call for a friend. They walk home from school without me, occasionally. So if he is safe enough on the streets (admittedly, only for a short time) why shouldn't he be safe at home?

It freaks me out to think that the first taste of independence a lot of children will have is when they're eleven and making their own way to secondary school (although a lot of parents round our way will still go and collect them rather than let them walk, cycle or catch the bus). I think this places them in far more danger than being home alone would ever do i.e. they have no ability to "risk assess" situations for themselves as they are never given the chance.

englandflag - in answer to your question, older than 3, thats for sure, but thats just my opinion.

I can remember coming home from primary school to an empty house. In fact I used to come home at lunch time to take the dog for a walk, and I must have been about 9 at the time. However, I lived in a small village and there was little perceived danger at that time - certainly the traffic was much lighter.

These days, though, it's not just the risk assessment which drives us but the much greater risk of being reported to social services for child neglect or being prosecuted for same. I'm sure if social awareness had been as great in the days of my childhood, my parents might have acted differently - or perhaps not.

Another factor is that DS1 is not the most mature boy, and can be a little ditsy at times, so I'm not sure I would have been comfortable leaving him home alone before now. DS2 on the other hand is much more mature, but I daren't leave him home alone now as (a) DS1 would have a hissy fit about unfairness and (b) he would inevitably be home alone with DS1 and I can't guarantee there wouldn't be bloodshed .

Yes, older than three but roughly how old? 6? 10? 13?

It is funny how we have differences about this! I know it sounds daft but I am happier thinking my 10 yo is with my 8 yo (thus putting my 8 yo in situations I would never have allowed the 10 yo to be in when he was 8) than I am thinking of the 10 yo alone. Hence when 10 yo goes to call for friend, 8 yo goes with him. But then, you see my two oldest boys are inseparable, always have done everything possible together and I feel there is safety in numbers. Also, if there was a crisis of any sort (heaven forbid) I would prefer the idea of 2 heads working out what to do rather than one.

Would I leave my dd on her own when she is three years? Not a chance.
Six years? No.
Ten years? Probably not, but it does depend. I certainly wouldnt leave a child under 10 on their own.

But as I said, my personal opinion.

Franny, I posted this in another thread but thought it may answer your question. My DS has not yet played with matches but he melted part of our microwave by placing a tin inside of it. So, not a random fire but a possibility...

"oh well, I have some worries about living him alone in the house (find it more dangerous than living him in the car). A coworker of mine left her 2 kids locked in the house while she went to the supermarket, in the hour it took her to return the kids started playing with matches and managed to set a settee in fire. As they were scared they locked themselves in their room and hid under the bed. By the time mum arrived the firemen had just declared one of the kids dead of smoke inhalation and were transpoting the second to the hospital for the same reason, second child died on transit. "

BTW... since then I have learned to spell "leaving"

Again this came up on the children's book thread but I read a Dorothy Edwards book from the 70s where the two 3 year olds go off to the playground in the park by themselves while their mothers sit (out of view) at the other end of the park.

It was clearly a fairly ordinary thing for children to do, and the book has an urban setting, not some idyllic village. What the hell happened in the last 30 years?

I am so very sorry to hear about that, Chandra. It is very hard discussing individual cases like that, and probably better not to try, but I feel that it could and should be possible somehow to leave children alone without that sort of tragedy happening.

I'm 25 and grew up in a lovely little village. We weren't left on our own when we were young, when we were in primary school my mum and her friend who lived across the road took turns to look after us in the mornings and taking us to school (my mum worked, she'd do it on her days off).

Hmmm. Might ask my parents what age we were when we were left by ourselves. TBH I dont think we were under the age of 10.

I wouldnt do it. But I have one of those minds that can see all the things that can happen when I take a risk, and I'd never forgive myself if I left my daughter by herself and something awful happened.

I know that I was allowed to wander well away of my parents' view since I was 2. I used to follow my older sister (then 3) to visit a girl who lived at the end of the street. By 10 we were taking two buses each way to go to a music class at the other side of the city, although many of my neighbours had been using buses on their own since they were 7.

I'm not completely convinced by the Dorothy Edwards story. I grew up in the 60s and 70s and would never, ever have been out of my mother's sight at 3. I doubt very much that it was commonplace then from what I remember of parks. I have never felt that Dorothy Edwards has a great feel for what children do at different ages anyway- look how much MNLS varies from one story to the next.

But there has to come a time Elf. And if that child (whatever age they are) has never been left alone to make some decisions and deal with situations, how will they cope for the first time?

It's our generation as parents that are to blame though, don't you think? We seem to think that there are no such thing as accidents any more, everything is either preventable or somebody's fault. I rode around on my bike on my own when I was in Brownies, armed with my 2p for an emergency phone call and the knowledge of what to do in a "dodgy" situation of any description. Yes, traffic has got a lot heavier but to my knowledge, no other risks have increased since I was a child.

But Elf would you forgive yourself if you were in the car and there was an accident? If she fell off the slide at the park?

I am not trying to brow beat you, just very interested in how this cultural taboo works.

We can't rule out every element of risk from our lives, can we?

And I had to make a cup of tea for my hostess badge! How many 7 year olds are allowed near kettles nowadays?