How do you explain to kids that certain things are girl / boy things?

[BabyRuSh]

Sorry if its a dumb question. We were picking out shoes for ds recently (2y) and he kept pointing at pink ballet pump shoes in the catalogues. I didn't know how to say that those designs were for girls. Is there a nice way to explain this?? I have no issue with him playing with pink toys as i believe toys are gender neutral, and am a bit stumped as to how I explain that he can't wear certain things because he's a boy!

Oh for Gods sake.

Just tell him it's for girls.

Toys, jobs, sports, hobbies - not gender specific at all and I never will be with my DDs.

But clothes are. My daughters are females. And I will encourage them to dress as such. And if I have a son, I will encourage my son to dress as a male.

He will probably forget about them as soon as he sees something else. But if not buy him some ballet shoes to wear as slippers indoors. You can get them in a variety of different colours. He may prefer red ones!

'forced into gay garments'. I'm with you, seeker. Since when did garments have a gender?

OP, it's up to you, but personally I find it sad that you 'would like him to conform' when he's out in public. He's two, FFS! He'll probably gravitate towards different, more 'conformist' colours and styles when he's older and definitely will conform if he's indoctrinated from this age.

Like a lot of others on here, I have reservations about the type of footwear but not the colour. If he insists on pink why not try to find him some pink trainers/wellies or something else sturdier?

With all due respect, if you want to let him choose then you have to buy what he chooses. If you want him to have a particular style then just buy them and he should be grateful for what he gets, until he can afford to buy his own and make his own choice

"I am from Manchester but don't live there now. We stayed in a hotel in town for a friend's hen do. Had a drink in the bar before heading off and I noticed we were surrounded by very glamorous, well-groomed, tall women, looked in the mirror at my reflection and suddenly felt rather short and slightly drab. After a few minutes it sunk"

You're absolutely sure that was Manchester? Did it take you quite a long time to get there- could it possibly have been Bangkok..............?

With all due respect, if you want to let him choose then you have to buy what he chooses. If you want him to have a particular style then just buy them and he should be grateful for what he gets, until he can afford to buy his own and make his own choice

Sorry that the irony of my comments clearly whizzed over some people's heads.

I agree with Eddie Izzard - 'these are not women's clothes. They are my clothes'.

But how silly of me, I quite forgot that department stores have different sections marked 'men' and 'women' which obviously invalidates all my arguments and clearly sets out in stone that men and women must segregate all their garments otherwise, crikey, I wouldn't like to speculate about what ghastly things might happen.

Not read all the posts here so sorry if I'm repeating someone else but I think at such a young age, it's unlikely he will be on the receiving end of any gender type bigotry. If he was older, he might get comments but at 2 it's not like strangers are going to come up to him, calling him names for wearing pink shoes.

And I don't really think the colour thing is that big a deal in this day and age. My husband went to an interview on Friday and wore a pink tie. As far as I'm aware, nobody laughed him out of the interview room saying "Get out, we don't employ gays here".

Oh, don't be silly, spero. Stop shouting at people and have an interesting discussion.

I am not shouting at anyone. Interesting that you think I am.

I am also finding the discussion interesting. Particularly as no one is being really clear about what the problem is. There are several little boys at my daughters school with long hair. Haven't noticed them being bullied or have it pointed out that they are transgressing societal norms.

And I am also chortling at suggestion that department stores determine our societal norms.

The department store thing is obviously bonkers.

And actually, boys with long hair do sometimes have a hard time. My ds did. He decided that it was worth it. But he was old enough to make that decision for himself.

What I am taking from this thread is that girls are allowed - nay, encouraged - to wear whatever they like, do whatever they like, not be bound by assumptions that 'its a boy thing'... But little boys can't.

They can't ever ask for or enjoy something pink or sparkly in case some random twat makes a comment. And we can't challenge this for another generation apparently.

Bonkers. And horribly unfair.

Well, if that's s what you take from this thread the I suspect you have read it very selectively. Which is a shame, because there is an interesting debate to be had.

Where do you all live that people would comment or be rude about a two yr old wearing pink shoes?

Ds3 is 8, for his 8th bday he wanted to go seethe new Tinkerbell film, he went with some friends and he wrote a fairy dress over a pair of skinny jeans. No-one said anything. He doesn't wear the fairy dress much to go out but if he has friends round or he goes to friends houses they are forever dressing up, sometimes in dresses etc, they are playing. He also has a purple sparkly tutu he wears over jeans with a purplet-shirt. He chose them and they look quite funky. The only comment he has hasd was from a teen at laxer quest who said he looked cool and gave him a high five.

He doesn't wear them all the time but when he does it just isn't a big deal. His friends know he likes Tinkerbell and fairies and sparkly things. He also likes football and Lego and riding his bike.

Seriously if I see a two yr old or any child wearing something that isn't the 'norm' I assume they have chosen it themselves as do most adults.

I get that sometimes children can be mean but actually that hasn't been our experience and ds3 is confident enough to say that he likes fairies etc on the odd time he has been questioned (he used to have a fairy scooter and someone asked why he had a girls scooter... He said I like fairies and they aren't just for girls).

I find it odd, and quite frankly, irritating that people insist on stereptyping boys/girls/blue/pink etc.

if it is now starting in infancy, then god help us all.

we went to stay with friends recently. it was bloody freezing, and ds (7 months) was wearing a snowsuit (in a rather fetching shade of plum). the very first thing friends said to ds? "oh, they've got you wearing pink, have they? that'll never do!" It was the first time they'd met him, but instead of cooing over his obvious gorgeousness (), they commented on his clothes, ffs. and he is 7 months old!

I did, of course, rush off to check that hs willy hadn't fallen off, as I had clearly unwittingly set in process his sex change

the next time they saw us, ds was wearing a different snowsuit (pesky babies do keep growing!) - this one in emerald green. they mentioned it was a better colour... what they didn't know was that that one was a cast off from dd2, and had a flowery lining . It obviously hadn't occurred to them that green could be worn by girls...

it is so tedious. I really don't think there are societal norms when it comes to toddlers - aren't they famed for bonkers dressing anyway? such as wellies/tutu/fireman's hat combo to go shopping? surely anyone seeing a 2 year old in pink sparkly slippers in Tesco (or Waitrose!) would think they are from the dressing up box anyway? (due to non-suitability of said footwear for everyday, rather than any boy/girl angst)

and anyone who said anything to a 2 year old about gender stereotyping of clothing is clearly just a narrow minded bigot, tbh.

Oh dear, I have failed so miserably in this.

My DS LOVED to wear his sisters pink ballet shoes, leotard and tutu at every opportunity - both at home and in the street/at others houses until he was about 5 and decided he preferred footy kits.

I don't think you failed at all bigtilly you let him be a child :)

Did he get horrible comments?

"and anyone who said anything to a 2 year old about gender stereotyping of clothing is clearly just a narrow minded bigot, tbh."

Of course they are! Anyone who said to a child of any age would be too!

But my job as a parent is to protect my children from narrow minded bigots, until such time as they are old enough to decide for themselves what they want to do.

I object very strongly to children being used as their parent's political bill board.

I really don't think 2, 3, 4 year olds need to be protected from bigots. No one is going to hassle a pre-schooler for wearing a tutu or pink shoes.

When they get to school there might be more pressure to conform to gender stereotypes - children of 5+ will work out for themselves if they want to wear ballet shoes or football kit.

Some adults fear of bigots seems to be massively out of proportion with any actual bigotry toddlers might face.

Homophone, we've said to DS (3) that some people think pink is for girls but that's a bit silly, and if he wants to wear pink he should. Pink is his favourite colour at the moment :)

Aaarrgh, I'm not saying that department stores should dictate societal norms - where did that come from! I'm just saying that whether you like it or not, most people consider some things to be girls clothes and some things to be boys clothes - which is why on shops and websites there are sections for girls and for boys. Eg most people I know would think dresses were girls clothes. Even if they didn't mind their little boys wearing them!! It's fine to let your little boys dress up in whatever they want - if that's what they want!

Right - I have RL things to do (10 people to tea!) - and I now officially surrender!! Have fun everyone.

I agree with those arguing that supposed bigotry seems to be more real for some people than any actual bigotry and that they are prepared to circumscribe their child's choices on that basis.

I object very strongly to children being used as their parent's political bill board.

It's not being used as a political billboard if your child has made a choice for themselves (at 2, 12 or whatever) and you go along with that.

The children are far more sensible about these issues than the adults, seemingly.

Also, if you only buy pink for your girls and blue for your boys, your child is just as much of a political billboard as if you don't care.

I have read it all, and that is the message I am getting. You are getting a different one, that's super, that is what discourse is all about surely?

I remember a care case I did once where the baby was in foster care before her parents killed her through combination of neglect and rampant drug use. I had to spend an hour trying to calm down my parent client - time we didn't really have to waste given the enormity of the mountain he had to climb to prove his fitness to parent.

Why was he so cross? Because at supervised contact the day before his baby girl had arrived in a blue onsie. According to him this was abuse. Why wasn't she in the pink vests etc, etc.

Maybe that was just his way of thing to deflect from the much more serious issues with which he had to contend. But sadly I think there are a lot of people out there with this bonkers world view.

They really need to know their history. In Victorian times PINK was the favoured colour for boys as it was seen as a 'strong' colour. I think the switch in perception came after WW2 when the Nazis designated pink triangles to homosexual men in the death camps.

What I object to is people being put into boxes for utterly illogical irrelevant reasons.