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Original poster

How do you explain to kids that certain things are girl / boy things?

168 replies

BabyRuSh · 01/03/2013 17:39

Sorry if its a dumb question. We were picking out shoes for ds recently (2y) and he kept pointing at pink ballet pump shoes in the catalogues. I didn't know how to say that those designs were for girls. Is there a nice way to explain this?? I have no issue with him playing with pink toys as i believe toys are gender neutral, and am a bit stumped as to how I explain that he can't wear certain things because he's a boy!

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Biscuitsneeded · 02/03/2013 23:28

My son is nearly 8 and has long hair and last summer his favourite T shirt was pink. He does dancing and choir and is often the only boy invited to girls' parties. He is also the fastest runner in his class, pretty good at football, very interested in space and his three best friends are boys. One of them asked him, once, about the pink T shirt. My son's answer - "because I like it". They've never asked again. Really, why on earth would any parent want to 'protect' their child from another child asking a question?? I don't see why I should assume my poor son isn't going to be able to deal with a few questions from less enlightened kids. A child with religious parents told my son that my son must have got it wrong when he said his parents (ie DP and me) were not married, because "you can't have a baby unless you're married". My son put him straight. No big issue. Kids need to learn to challenge ignorance but the great thing is they are kids and they can do it in a very casual way with no hurt feelings.

ZuleikaD · 03/03/2013 06:46

I hate all this 'pink for girls' bollocks - it's time we started encouraging our children to think of colours as just colours.

fouranddone · 03/03/2013 07:21

Spero (9.48am) I'm not sure why you used the word gay? Or why sexuality came into it? If a man was to wear woman's clothes then he would be classed as a cross dresser (transgender?)
So if you put a boy in girls clothes then I would say chances are they would be a cross dresser NOT gay.
Anyway I probably shouldn't be contributing, my son never wanted to dress girly or play princesses and I would never allow him to wear girls cloths when he has a closet full of very nice boys clothes, vice versa for my 3dd's. shoot me!

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seeker · 03/03/2013 07:37

"If I had a son who I forced into gay garments so I could pervade him up and down my local shopping street as a target for abuse then of course that would be utterly selfish and wrong."

I found this a little odd. Gay garments? What are gay garments? I thought we were talking about boys wearing traditionally girl's clothes- or did I miss a meeting?

exoticfruits · 03/03/2013 07:38

I can't see why you need to, I would be giving him the exact same reason that I would give a girl for not buying them.

Spero · 03/03/2013 09:39

Sigh.

I have repeatedly asked - what are your objections to sons wearing 'girls' clothes?

As all I hear is 'it transgresses societal norms' I have assumed that the real reason is you fear it will make your sons gay.

When a friends husband objected to his son pushing a pram, that was his fear.

So if I am wrong in this assumption, as I previously said, I apologise.

Now I am dying to hear the real reasons. A small boy expresses a preference for 'girls' shoes, tops, skirts etc. will the seas boil? Wll the earth tilt on its axis?

Come on, tell me I am really curious now. Especially as some of think is such an incendiary topic we have to wait 'another generation' to challenge it.

lifesobeautiful · 03/03/2013 10:16

Whether anyone likes it or not, whether they think it's prejudiced or not, at this present moment in time, it would be unusual to see boys walking around in ballet pumps and dresses. Thus, it 'transgresses societal norms'. That's what transgressing societal norms means. It is something that stands out, is not usual. If you saw a 10 year old boy walking around the shops in a dress and sandals with his hair in clips - most people would look (not necessarily to judge, but because it's something unusual). It's got nothing to do with being gay.

lifesobeautiful · 03/03/2013 10:24

In addition, no, seeing a tiny boy in pink ballet pumps wouldn't be unusual or horrible - he's still just a baby. But dressing sons always in girls clothes while out and about - that would be somewhat unusual. Well, it's not something I've ever seen, and I socialise with very open-minded people.

seeker · 03/03/2013 10:32

My son might be gay for all I know.

As it happened, he never showed a desire for pink ballet shoes when he was 4. However, if he had, I would have taken steps to protect him from ignorant and bigoted people which would have spoiled his pleasure in them. And because I can't control the reactions of strangers, I would have found a way of stopping him wearing them to Tesco. Not by saying "those are girl's shoes" but but saying that they weren't practical- or something. Because it only takes one remark from a git to shatter a child's innocent pleasure. He's 12 now, and old enough to deal with any comment he gets (he likes quirky clothes). He knows that, for example, if he wears his green skinny jeans, someone will call him gay. And he is old enough to decide for himself whether he feels like dealing with that today or not. When he was 4 he wasn't. So I would have made that decision for him.

insancerre · 03/03/2013 10:40

As it happened, he never showed a desire for pink ballet shoes when he was 4. However, if he had, I would have taken steps to protect him from ignorant and bigoted people which would have spoiled his pleasure in them
couldn't agree more
what a sad world we live in though that children are not able to just wear what they want
when my son was 4 he was verbally abused by an adult for his choice of football strip
as for soceital norms- that totally depends on the society you are in- in parts of Manchester, for example, it is totally normal to see men walking around dressed as women. I have no problem with that at all, so seeing a young boy in sparkly pink ballet shoes would not challenge me at all.
Small mindedness is such a pitiful state to be in.

seeker · 03/03/2013 10:44

And, as an aside, the only man I know who might ever wear women's clothes in public is not gay.

Oh, and neither is Grayson Perry.

Ledkr · 03/03/2013 10:45

Big difference between pink clothes and skirts and dresses though.
It doesn't need over analysing really does it? They'd look stupid!
Same as if you let them wear clothes far too big or small or odd shoes.
And you cannot make someone gay, no matter what they do.
I'd let my baby boy wear what he likes but around school age it's up to the parent to guide them to fit in with their peers whilst maintaining their own personalities.
If they choose to cross dress then that's fine but most cross dressers also dress as males for work especially when they first try it out.

Fillyjonk75 · 03/03/2013 10:47

TBH, I feel like I'm constantly battling against parents like the OP who think only certain things are ok for boys and only certain things are ok for girls.

DD1 was the first girl to play football after school and now there are four or five others doing it. I thought things might have moved on in 30 years when I was facing similar things at school but apparently not...

Ledkr · 03/03/2013 10:50

filly my son is a ballet dancer and not gay. We are talking about dressing boys (if they so wish) in girls clothes.
Which in my opinion would make them stand out like a sore thumb.

lifesobeautiful · 03/03/2013 10:54

I'm a total feminist - and was a tomboy at school. I think girls and boys should have totally equal opportunities when it comes to sport (football), politics, jobs everything. All I'm saying is that AT THE MOMENT (apart from in Manchester apparently), you don't regularly see boys wearing dresses and ballet shoes. But maybe that'll change soon. It obviously bothers people a lot that there's such a thing as male and female clothes. Someone needs to tell the department stores, shops, designers, dressmakers, etc that mark clothes as males and females clothes - or have boys and girls sections - how horribly bigoted and dinosaur-like they are, evidently.

Fillyjonk75 · 03/03/2013 10:55

Who mentioned sexuality? I didn't.

Define "girls clothes".

lifesobeautiful · 03/03/2013 10:59

I think most people would think skirts and dresses are generally worn by girls wouldn't they? In the UK anyway?

insancerre · 03/03/2013 10:59

That's just it, fillyjonk, there is no such thing as 'girl's clothes' because they are able to wear whatever they like. My Dd wears her boyfriends clothes all the time, she even wears boys boxers.
It's that acceptance of this inequality that needs to be challenged.

lifesobeautiful · 03/03/2013 11:00

And if you go to Gap/Next/John Lewis - any department store - there'll be a section marked girls, a section marked boys, a section marked men, a section marked women. What will you see in the girls and women's section? Dresses, skirts - as well as trousers etc. It would be pretty unusual (call me crazy!) to see dresses and skirts in the men's section. Wouldn't it?? Or am I mad?

seeker · 03/03/2013 11:01

"TBH, I feel like I'm constantly battling against parents like the OP who think only certain things are ok for boys and only certain things are ok for girls. "

Me too. I'm just not prepared to put a child too young to understand on the firing line. Informed consent is all important.

Amused at the thought of hordes of cross dressing Mancunians..........

lifesobeautiful · 03/03/2013 11:01

At the moment - there is such a thing as girls and boys clothes. Challenge it, fight it, boycott it - it obviously is very important to some people. But at the moment - yes, there is such a thing as girls and boys clothes!! Doesn't mean they can't swap if they want to!!

Fillyjonk75 · 03/03/2013 11:05

I am from Manchester but don't live there now. We stayed in a hotel in town for a friend's hen do. Had a drink in the bar before heading off and I noticed we were surrounded by very glamorous, well-groomed, tall women, looked in the mirror at my reflection and suddenly felt rather short and slightly drab. After a few minutes it sunk in that they weren't women.

insancerre · 03/03/2013 11:05

clickie

skrumle · 03/03/2013 11:15

i let my son wear a butterfly clasp in his hair to school last week. he came home quite happy - clearly nobody had been mean to him about it. my H and i did hesitate, because of the risks of "transgressing social norms" but i have to say OP that if somebody said something mean to a TWO YEAR OLD about the shoes they were wearing I would be saying something a lot meaner back to them!

lifesobeautiful · 03/03/2013 11:16

They look great! And I imagine if you asked them what they're wearing, they would say 'women's clothes!' Anyway, it's been a fun debate! I expect to see tons of boys dressed in skirts and dresses traipsing the streets of London from now on - courage of your convictions everybody!

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