Worried about strangers baby

[Dolliedaydream]

I can't get this experience today out of my head and not sure what if anything I can do about it.

In tescos this afternoon I heard very loud continuous crying, definitely a baby but really distressed. The mum slowly passed by with a newborn and a girl of about three in a double trolley, baby in the blue reclining section, not a car seat, she didnt seem to be paying attention to the baby at all and was looking at the products. The crying continued and was really distressing, an employee on the shop floor said she heard the mum say to the baby 'well pull yourself up then'.

I went up to her, the baby was all crumpled up and clearly uncomfortable he had no blanket or warm clothing, I asked how old he was and she said a week, I said he sounds unhappy maybe he's hungry, she said he had been fed before he came out. I asked if she wanted to pick him up and I would push her trolley or the other way round, she said no it's fine. Then her mum appeared and said I can carry him if you want. She lifted him up and kind of slung him on her shoulder. It didn't look ideal but it was better and he was quiet.

I know we all have times when our baby is crying but this crying was like nothing I have heard before especially for a newborn and I couldn't ignore it like these two could.

Would it be a waste of time reporting this?, I don't know who she is, where she lives and she hasn't done anything exceptionally wrong but it is really bugging me, I keep thinking that child welfare is everyone's concern. So many people were looking and some of us talking, none of us doing.

I can imagine the call to social services now. "hello? I'd like to report a woman because her baby was crying and not in a way which I deem normal." Op get a grip, seriously. Babies cry, it's what they do. Having four children doesn't make you an expert on what a baby's cry should sound like,neither does having been on a child protection course.

It totally would set you up.
Follow your instincts. you could call tesco and see if there is CCTV, 3 babies die a week due to parental abuse, neglect being a direct cause of death to many many children every year.
If OP felt there was something wrong there may well have been. And if there wasn't then it's all academic.

Ha, I had one of these in the supermarket once, dd2 was not a baby but an older child of about 8, and always begged to push the trolley around (one of those shallow ones) even though she was only about the same height as the handle at the time.

A loon concerned citizen got into my face and said it was cruel, awful and abusing the 'poor little thing', 'making her do your job for you' and the clincher, ' and just before Christmas too!' and made noises about social services because she could see that the trolley was 'far too big and heavy for her' and 'what goes on at home' etc etc

My mouth was flapping like a goldfish not knowing what to say, I was ready to go on the attack until dd2 piped up 'I like pushing the trolley!' then I couldn't stop laughing. Just saying, a moment/snapshot gave her the totally wrong impression, maybe that's what happened here.

To this day she still asks to do it and I say 'ok dd2 but let me know if it's too heavy' and she will say 'ha, or that crazy lady will shout at you again.'

I think it's fair to say a lot of us mums have been in a similar situation. But I really can't believe that the op would be flamed for being concerned. So what if she did follow it up. What's the worst that could happen? Yes, indeed the mother would be pissed off and spit fire at such accusations (as would I). But the appropriate professionals would see there was no harm done and that the baby was not in danger. But what if op's instincts were right? Then at least that baby doesn't become another statistic. Always better to be wrong of course.

The worst that could happen is that a child who is genuinely being abused has to wait an extra few days to be helped because the social worker is off finding a woman who let her baby cry in tesco. [hhmm]

But OP doesn't know who they are so how could they report them?!

When ds was about a week old he had a total screaming meltdown in primark a shop and I was mortified. The woman wasn't doing anything wrong - I actually think she was pretty nice to the OP considering the 'maybe he's hungry' comment which always used to get my heckles up, as if it was something I might not have thought of.

missymoomoomee Mon 29-Oct-12 23:11:47
The worst that could happen is that a child who is genuinely being abused has to wait an extra few days to be helped because the social worker is off finding a woman who let her baby cry in tesco.

I feel really relieved that you 'know' this baby in the supermarket isn't being abused.

Come on!

I hope she was wrong. But when someone says their gut instinct tells them there's more. You've got to wonder what other things sparked warning signs.

I'm with Mary.

You sound like a good person OP but there's probably not much you can do now. Social workers often work on gut feeling so I understand what you mean. I always say that if you suspect it, report it - don't think you can here though.

Don't let these sour cows get you down.

The woman had her Mum with her so she is clearly getting support, the woman also had a 3yo girl with her who was obviously fine as the op didn't mention anything negative about her, of course I don't know the baby isn't being abused, the same as I don't know any child I happen to walk past is being abused, but to be talking about reporting a woman in the supermarket because her baby was crying and didn't have a blanket is ridiculous.

I think this is possibly the biggest over-reaction I've ever seen from a 5 minute glance at a strangers life.

Dollie - I think it's coming over 'on paper' as you being really OTT, but sometimes you just 'feel' something isn't right. Some babies do just sound like they're having their nails pulled out - some babies are abused. We can't know what the 'reality' is here. There really isn't anything you can do this time, without looking like a complete twat, so you are going to have to let it go and hope you are wrong. Next time, deal with it there & then if you think it warrants intervention.

Thanks for the many responses, yes it good to get other perspectives...but regardless of my response to the mum in question i don't think it was perfectly ok to:
On a cold day take your one week old newborn through the supermarket including cold aisles in a short sleeved top and thin dungarees. Place him on cold hard plastic designed for an older baby with no blanket or support. Ignore him crying desperately for at least 10 minutes when you had your mum with you to help.
That may be something to agree on.

Why were you talking to the shop assistant about her?
How did the three year old seem?

Op, fwiw I agree with Go but you will always flamed on Mumsnet for even daring to suggest there was something amiss! It is as if abuse is something that does not occur to Newborn babies/babies! Well unfortunately it does happen and due to the fact that babies can't talk, it is really important that people do notice and question things that simply aren't right!

In this scenario I would say the following are big flashing warning lights:

• baby of 1 WEEK stuck in supermarket car seat crying but not bei g responded to by the mother.
• The woman saying to the baby, 'well pull yourself up then'. NOT NORMAL!
• slowly doing the shopping when her 1 WEEK OLD was in distress. Her mother was with her. If she had that level of support she should have picked the baby up and waited to go around with her mother pushing the trolley OR she should be at home with a 1 WEEK old feeding her ON DEMAND and her mother should've done the shopping for her.
• Having NO blanket or warm clothes on a 1WEEK old around a supermarket that are always cold in OCTOBER, especially in the aisles with fridges.

I can totally understand your concerns OP, her actions, words go against every maternal instinct you should have for a 1 week old. It is not natural or normal to not hold them at that age in that much distress IMO. I have seen this kind of thing happen in supermarkets and I just feel like saying just feed them for goodness sake, hold them, do something, rather than expecting a very very young baby to adjust to the very unnatural conditions of, for exame, sitting in a plastic Tesco car seat. It is not Rocket Science, it is common fucking sense! If her mum was about I'd even wonder why the hell she didn't abandon the trip. It is just so selfish. It is not about a mother wanting to revert back to a normal life of browsing Tesco's when a baby is 1 WEEK old and you should know that even more if you have another child!

I have 2 DC. My DS was 3 when I had DD. I would never have dreamt of finding this acceptable and with DD my second born, i knew how it worked, the whole newborn thing - you know that you have to nurture, care and feed on demand. Even with my 1st born, whose birth was very traumatic, I would've not dreamed of ignoring my 1 WEEK old and sticking him in a plastic seat at Tescos without warm clothes or a blanket. It just goes against every grain of your maternal instinct. For that reason I think you are right to be worried OP. The coldness is very, very worrying. Could they be identified from CCTV footage in a car park. If they had a car they would perhaps have a registration number. It sounds like there isn't much hope for identifying her as SS would probably want more details than you could provide.

You can only hope that highlighting the major problems with this scenario to the mother may have made her question her own behaviour towards her 1 WEEK old- let's hope. I have said things to parents that have publicly not treated their children with any care whatsoever. No it doesn't go down well but frankly I don't give a shiny shit as I'm not someone that will just stand back when things are just wrong on many levels!

missy, how do you think a baby that is being abused is discovered then? The baby by all accounts was crying for good reasons. It is NOT NORMAL to not react to a 1 week old in such distress, it IS NORMAL to think there is something deeply wrong with this mother's reactions. Indicators of abuse, neglect, are built up into a bigger picture and abuse can be uncovered in this way- surely?? No point in minimising this to a baby crying. A baby is not going to phone child line so yes it is important for people to be a bit brave. Unfortunately, there aren't many people out in the wider world that are that brave, they wouldn't have the guts to do what the OP did so they dismiss her efforts as higly reactionary, unnecessary and OTT and this is why abuse continues and people continue to get away with it. Missy, you talk about the baby who 'is genuinely being abused' may be missed as a result of the OP reporting her concerns, how do you know this ISN'T the baby in real trouble?

As I said, I don't know this baby isn't in real trouble, as I don't know any passing child isn't in real trouble does that mean I should report everyone I see ignoring a crying child who isn't wearing warm clothing?

You can't judge abuse over 5 minutes in a shop then a quick gossip with a shop assistant.

I am all for reporting people when there are severe incidents of abuse they have witnessed for a few minutes, or prolonged periods of things that aren't quite right with a neighbour or someone who is close to the family. To report someone who has just had a baby, probably hasn't slept, is probably in pain and forgetful just now, because they dare to leave their baby to cry for a few minutes and ignore/say pull yourself up then (I'm not sure which as it can't really be both, either she spoke to baby or she didn't) when she has support (although her Mother could well have been chatting to someone for a few minutes when this baby crying incident went on) is a massive over-reaction.

If you take some 5 minute snapshots of my life over the last 11 years then you would have a bloody field day reporting me. I'm sure every parent has had moments where they haven't quite been their best when out and about.

How did you know the baby was a week old? And presumably if the gm was helping she hadn't walked off and left struggling mum with a crying baby. Maybe if baby was quite young, sm needed the support of the trolly and couldn't hold her baby up due to fresh injuries. I didn't hold ds standing unroll he was nearly 2 Weeks as my insides threatened to fall out.

I've never once put a blanket in one of those supermarket seat things. With ds (born in dec) I was paranoid about him overheating so took his snowsuit off before going round a supermarket.

I don't think it warrants reporting me tbh.

Sounds very distressing for everyone, but realistically there is nothing you can do other than what you did which was offer kindness and practical help.

MrsHoarder, the OP says she asked the Mum how old she was.

I think you can learn quite a lot from a five minute observation of parenting. Surely it totally depends on what happens and what is said within those 5 minutes. For example, I was sat in a supermarket car park recently and I saw and heard a mum with a couple of children shouting her head off. She was not happy about something. I just carried on listening to the radio but then to my shock she got her hand firmly around the girl's neck who was about 4, opened the door of the car and literally threw her in the back of the car by her neck. She was swearing at her and when she got into the car turned around from her own seat and was as hoc ally swiping her until the sibling stopped her. Needless to say I took her registration number. I would've intervened but the sibling stopped her (thank God) and I had baby DD with me. I have intervened in a supermarket before and told a 6ft well built bully that he should be ashamed of himself. I was 8 months pregnant at the time but his treatment of his children was horrendous. Everyone was watching his behaviour but did nothing about it as people use the excuse that they can't witness abuse in seeing 5 minutes behaviour and all the abuse is going on somewhere else!!

Bea, it is the accumulation of things this woman did presumably to make her concerned. I think your newborn must have been very uncomfortable in one of those seats and cold with it, if it's like any supermarket I've ever been in I.e refrigated in most parts! How would a baby over heat with a thin blanket on it in that situation? Equally, this was her second child she would know a bit more about newborns in that situation. If a 1 WEEK old is crying in a horrible plastic seat with no warmth, PICK it up for goodness sake- it needs you, you have just given birth to it, it is not the baby's fault that they were born last week. Stop looking at stuff in Tescos and look/ hold your newborn baby. A woman recovering from the birth who has the support of other people should get those people to get the shopping. It is irresponsible to go out with a 1 week old knowing you can't pick the baby up and cruel.

I once saw a mum walking about the supermarket in a trance whilst her very young baby was crying. After a few minutes in our aisle, another woman walked over and started saying 'Maybe he's hungry?' 'Maybe he's tired'. Cue the mum bursting in to tears and sobbing that he has colic and could she just try and buy her families dinner please. I felt so awful for the mum and it shows that situations aren't always as obvious as they look. I don't think there is much that can be done now so try not to stress yourself over it too much OP.

I think it is really really offensive to say to a mother of a small baby 'maybe he's hungry ' - to put it in perspective, I hated it when DP said that to me about our baby - let alone a stranger. honestly - how can you think that is okay to say to a new mum. Of course you mean well - but she was with her mum and low level poor parenting is nothing you can help with - you may well have made a harassed, depressed mum feel really judged.

it is so stressful being out with a crying baby - it's her second child and you don't know how much she had already done to comfort the child. some babies cry a lot.

I think it's awful that you would approach another woman and try to tell her what to do with her baby! HOw is that going to help her? A mum knows her baby could be hungry for goodness sake. SHe can hardly feed her mid shop can she.

but - fair play you were worried - but seriously what on earth could you do about this? report a woman for seeming to be insufficiently concerned with her newborn? how twisted is that? how many women would get reported for that?!

The Op is saying that it is a combination of things. What about what she said to the baby, I.e 'pull yourself up'. That's just horrible.

People that abuse children do go to supermarkets. How do you know it's just poor parenting? The accumulation of things sound really quite bad.

To let a 1 week old just cry it out in a car seat is just so unloving, uncaring. 1 week olds should be fed and cuddled on demand it is not necessary to push around a trolley leaving the baby to cry. If I was on my own I wouldn't let that happen. If I was with my mum then it wouldn't even occur to me to not hold the baby. If her mum was available to go shopping why did she even have to go atall. It seems like the priorities are all wrong!

Golden your hysteria about this is ridiculous. Really.

It must be just lovely to be you in your perfect world of perfect parenting and picking babies up the minute they cry, feeding on demand while people run around shopping for you and you say the perfect thing at all times.

I live in the real world where people make mistakes, get busy, can't pick a baby up while pushing a trolley and doing shopping, get caught up talking at the supermarket for a few minutes, want to get out of the house after being cooped up for a week, and get fucked off with nosy people telling them how to parent when they know NOTHING about their lives.

To suggest tracking down cctv footage from the carpark to identify the woman because she put a baby (who had just been fed) in a babyseat of a trolley, left the child to cry for a few minutes until her mum came and picked the child up and may or may not have said 'well pull yourself up then' is just a stupid response.