at toddler groups can you always tell the childminded kids?

[genii]

I mean not just by the fact there is often quite a few of them per adult.

I have been to a few groups recently where there has been a childminder with a child of her own and one or two childminded kids and the differences in the way the children are treated (i.e. childminded and the childminder's own) has been very marked.

Things like always siding with their own dc on disputes over toys, getting their own kid a drink and ignoring the minded kid, leaving other adults to help the minded kid (put on aprons, get drinks, wash hands etc) when they (the childminder) could see they needed help, walking fast while holding the hand of a crying mindee while pushing their own (same age) child in a buggy.

Maybe this is just par of the course and I know childminders only get paid ~£4 ph and I haven't seen any actual neglect of children but I just feel a bit sad for the mindees as they must know that they are being treated less kindly than the minders own children.

I have been thinking of maybe using a childminder for my dc and was thinking a minder with dc a similar age would be good as they could attend toddler groups etc together but now I'm worried my child would just be treated as second class.

I'd be really interested on others views on this.

ps. I'm not suggesting all childminders are like this, just that a lot are and it's a bit of a risk, also obviously I've probably come across childminders where I haven't even realised they were and the dc weren't all their own!

I noticed this with one childminder at a group I went to. But she was the dourest person anyway, never interested in the children she was minding. This, and another CM I met who was really horrible to the boy she was minding put me right off using a childminder. I also noticed the childminders tend to hang with other childminders.

As a childminder, It's so hard to read a post like yours and not get defensive. While I realise that you acknowledge not all childminders are like that, on the other hand you are saying that you are considering not using a childminder based on what you have witnessed.

As a mother myself, I too would have been mortified to see such neglect, but I think it's important to keep mind of the fact that there are good and bad in ALL professions!

As a mother and a childminder, I've witnessed terrible nurseries, parents, and childminders! I wouldn't leave my child with any of those people mentioned. It all comes down to instinct, recommendations, references, how happy other children look in their settings. You just can't tarnish a profession with the same brush.

It's easy for me to say to you "I'm a great childminder, the children are happy in my care etc..". but that's what we all say, right? I have references, training, a welcoming home and most importantly happy, messy, content and thriving children - the proof is in the pudding.

WipsGilitter - you say Childminders tend to hang out with other childminders. Is there something wrong with that? If I was to work at NatWest bank would I not hang out with colleagues from NatWest bank? It's OK and actually a good thing to "hang out" with other childminders so long as we are still doing our job. We don't get breaks or lunch breaks. It's pretty healthy to meet up with other professionals to work!!

My DD goes to a CM who is, coincidentally, her grandmother. I see first hand that DD is treat exactly the same as all the other mindees. I know CM /DM is not her mother but still as a grandmother there was the potential for favouritism.

In fact, even on days when DM is off, and we pop in, dd is still treat the same as any child (mindee or family or friends child) would be in DMs home.

Not my experience at all. Also a BIG leap from one person you have seen, to a whole profession. Bit like you seeing one mother swearing at her dc and hitting them round the head in the park and saying all mothers are terrible and shouldn't be out and about with children

My fabulous childminder is nicer to my children than I am.

There are bad childminders and great ones. Just like parents.

The CM I see at toddler groups all seem lovely. My CM has a son the same age as my DS2. She seems to treat them fairly and my DS2 loves her son so I think you can't generalise.

I could always spot the childminded dcs because they were the ones who weren't being supervised. The child minders would be chatting together while the children misbehaved and ran about. I used to find this particularly worrying at a paint and play session in an unfenced park. In one case, I saw a childminded dc fall off the top of a slide and a mother had to go up to the group of childminders and ask if the screaming child belonged to one of them. And, I'm sorry if it is upsetting to good childminders, but it did put me off using a childminder.

Yes, the same experience here. At the playgroup I go to, the childminder children are left to their own devices while childminders chat together. And those with children definitely favour their own.

I actually agree with the OP and this is one of the reasons I chose nursery. My DD went to nursery from very young (8 months) and I knew I would be getting a much better quality of care there than from someone who was always concerned about pick up times of her own kids and other mindees from school etc. Having said that, I live in a city where all the childminders I considered were doing it because they had young school age kids and it would fit round their lifestyles. It may be different with someone older who is doing it as a vocation. Why send a baby to a carer who would have to cart the baby up and down the road a few times a day to pick up the other children at their various nursery/school times? When my wee one starts school next year, I hope to be able to work it out between my DP and I to do drop offs and use the after school club.

I had a cm when my dd1 was very small. She only took one child (mine) the same age as her dc. She was brilliant. She was good with me, my dh and my dm and my dd. Just a lovely person. Some cm might be shit but I'm guessing you wouldn't leave your child with one like that. The best cm are the best care you could hope to have. Don't tar them all with the same brush.

tryingtoleave - ALL childminders? Really? and I suppose ALL the mothers were constantly behind their children at all times and not chatting ....I find that very hard to believe?

dimplebum - Would be interested to know what groups you attend! and if you think that by sending them to a nursery, they will not have staff chatting together or the possibility of a member of staff will leave your child unattended for a period of time (adult/child ratio isn't smaller in a nursery)

FizzyLaces - GOOD Childminders fit in all sorts of activities between the school drop offs/pick ups (assuming the childminder has children of her own). Good childminders make use of local events, parks, libraries, playgroups/softplays, music sessions etc. Good childminders will also do arts, crafts, reading, comforting, teaching.. the list is endless. Whilst I respect you are entitled to your opinion, I do think you have a very narrow minded view of what childminders are about. We all have preferences, but to suggest a child will not have a good quality of care being with a childminder is ludicrous. I take it from your post you have seen every local childminder as well as nurseries? Impressive!

JessePinkman - It's nice to hear positive feedback about childminders.

I get frustrated hearing the generalisation that childminders are bad. I've been childminding for years now and have children of my own. They have all grown up with and stayed in contact with past minded children. I have always been made to feel part of their families as they have mine. It's disheartening to hear some people disregard childminders so easily.

Mummy4life I didn't really want to get drawn in to a debate. Yes, I have seen lots of childminders. I have a teenage dd and have used lots of different childcare (including childminders) as I was a full time working single parent for many years and lots of my friends are childminders. I have been to toddlers loads of times with mine and my friends' kids and I can spot a childminder a mile away. While I respect your opinion, we are each entitled to our views on childcare and, while I know a good childminder is worth their weight in gold, I haven't come across many in the 15 years I have been a mother.

We are still in touch with our old cm, ten years on. She is just a lovely person that we were lucky to have in our lives.

Some cm are better than others, but that is why you visit a few and choose one that will benefit your child. The same you would do for a nursery, I looked round lots of nurseries and chose one that I thought my dc would be happy at. A lot I rejected. I think that you don't get to see how nurseries perform at mother and toddler groups. But if you did some would be better than others. I was happy with my nursery choice too, I wouldn't leave my children if I wasn't happy. Its that simple.

Completely agree with you Jesse. Childcare is a very emotive subject and I admire any one person who or steeing which carries it out well.

setting

FizzyLaces - Actually, your views come across as bold statements

"My DD went to nursery from very young (8 months) and I knew I would be getting a much better quality of care there than from someone who was always concerned about pick up times of her own kids and other mindees from school etc"

Your 'knowledge' could influence someone's decision to send their children to a nursery. Which as we all know, could have just as many unprofessional staff.

Yes they do if you insist on taking what I said out of context. I did mention other factors such as living in the city, age of child. And remember, this is my opinion, based on my 'knowledge'.

Well yes, mummy4, that does include all the cms I have seen. Obviously that doesn't cover all cms, but I can only talk about what I have seen. My friends and I stopped going to one activity when too many cms started coming because it became unpleasant for our toddlers because they stopped managing theirs.

And yes, mothers do chat, but it is much easier to chat and keep an eye on one child at the same time than it is to chat and be aware of the whereabouts of 4 children.

Having worked in a nursery I would never use them full time.
A good cm or loving relative would be the best option had I needed it.some cm are more complacent than others.

My CM has never taken DD to groups. Soft play, yes, the park yes, groups no. Groups are usually so the adults can catch up, really, aren't they? So it may not really be a representative sample.

Like all jobs there are good and bad chidminders. I have seen ones like you say and others who are amazing. Not sure about £4 ph though. Round my way they charge £60 per day for each child and have 3 under 5's plus the school children so are charging at least £200 per day. Thats's £20 ph before expenses.

My CM once got her mum, in Mexico, to send a picture of her so that she could giggle about how much DD looked like her as a child.

I also had a conversation at soft play when I got totally confused because one CM talked about all her charges like they were hers. People are different.