at toddler groups can you always tell the childminded kids?

[genii]

I mean not just by the fact there is often quite a few of them per adult.

I have been to a few groups recently where there has been a childminder with a child of her own and one or two childminded kids and the differences in the way the children are treated (i.e. childminded and the childminder's own) has been very marked.

Things like always siding with their own dc on disputes over toys, getting their own kid a drink and ignoring the minded kid, leaving other adults to help the minded kid (put on aprons, get drinks, wash hands etc) when they (the childminder) could see they needed help, walking fast while holding the hand of a crying mindee while pushing their own (same age) child in a buggy.

Maybe this is just par of the course and I know childminders only get paid ~£4 ph and I haven't seen any actual neglect of children but I just feel a bit sad for the mindees as they must know that they are being treated less kindly than the minders own children.

I have been thinking of maybe using a childminder for my dc and was thinking a minder with dc a similar age would be good as they could attend toddler groups etc together but now I'm worried my child would just be treated as second class.

I'd be really interested on others views on this.

ps. I'm not suggesting all childminders are like this, just that a lot are and it's a bit of a risk, also obviously I've probably come across childminders where I haven't even realised they were and the dc weren't all their own!

My experience of cm at toddler groups is the opposite. They seem to play more with the kids they have than us mum's. Apart from one I have met they have all been lovely.

That is a sweeping generalisation you have made there.

CM are people, people are all different so whilst that might be your experience from, say a couple of hours a week, it's not really an insight into cm as a valid choice of childcare.

My CM is worth her weight her gold. My two DS's love her. My oldest DS is the same age as her oldest DD and if I am being honest there was a time when I was worried about how they were getting on / fighting (they were about 3), DS1 would come home and say (about CM's daughter) 'She said this, she was mean etc', but I was able to have an open and honest conversation with CM about it, and that was that.

All CM are not the same, but find a good one and they are great for your DC's (consistency of care, home environment, lots of variety in their day etc).

Ha, wondered how long it would take before this turned into slagging off nurseries. I feel childcare professionals in all sectors should be respectful to parents views.

I agree with the OP. I have come across too many poor childminders to use them round here. I also met one who was truly amazing. I use a lovely nurseries as at least DC aren't stuck with the one, uninterested adult.

My childminders (husband and wife team) are fantastic and I think my DD would live with them if she could. Their family is DD3's second family.

I've used other childminders and nurseries, etc. over the years because DD1 is coming up 16 but although with the others I was able to go to work and do a job, my childminders now are so fantastic that I can go to work and have a career.

At our toddler group, the ones being ignored are those looked after by aunty or granny who really don't seem to want to do it. Very very sad for the child. The childminders are usually good.

I haven't read all of the thread but wanted to put my experiences as a parent.

When at toddler groups with my DC the cmers have always been the ones actually watching the dc and interacting with them. Some of the mothers are the ones who ignore their kids hitting others etc.

This has been in 3 different towns.

Can't generalise but one of my decisions to use nursery was my experience of CM at baby and toddler groups-children seemed feral and cm s sat around having coffee ignoring children. - but that's my experience. I think cm ing can be quite an isolated, lonely job with little leeway for a "having a bad day" and that was a risk I didn't want to take. But that's just mho.

Some people were chatting at work the other day.

One said his sister had just gone to the wedding of someone she "minded" as a child. The other laughed, and said he had recently been tapped on the shoulder by a big, hulking 18-19 yo, and turned around to realise it was someone his mother had "minded" when he was younger, wanting to say hello.

I didn't use childminders - we had nannies - but I have to say, I learnt a lot from them. They are, as has been said upthread, professionals. They have learnt techniques for caring for children, either through training or experience, which a mother of only a few children might not get to learn.

I have a colleague who takes her DC to a nursery. The children are always picking up some kind of illness, which spreads around all the children. Obviously, this is one person's experience (she is very happy with the care they receive) but this would put me off nurseries, if I was in a position to be needing to choose childcare.

I am a CM and what you say is true of some CMs. My DD always used to get upset, because I looked after the mindees better than her. Now she's 13, she helps out. Many good CMs will avoid the placeswith gangs of CMs, so you might not spot them so easily.

Nope, never seen anything like it. The CMs I have come across, at toddler group and elsewhere, have a) been very professional b) genuinely seemed to like children.

The CM dd uses is lovely and treats the mindees as if they were her own-mind you her own dc are now 7 and 11 but she has had my two dgs part time since they were 6months old and they love going to her which speaks volumes.
She bakes their birthday cakes and gives interesting activities.She lives on a farm and feeding the lambs is a yearly treat [with hygienic precautions of course].

One of the reasons I chose a childminder over nursery was because he would have to fit in with other things, just like he would if he was at home with me. Including school drop offs, pick ups, trips to the supermarket etc.

At the toddler groups I've been to I can definitely tell the cm kids. They are the ones who are well behaved and well looked after. Some of the other children who are there with their mothers are left as you described in your op, possibly also climbing on chairs and running amok while their mothers are busy chatting with their friends.

It very much depends on your childminder. If you met my cm at a toddler group you would assume she had 3 children very close in age and was doing a great job with managing all of them. That is a mistake a lot of people make actually as all 3 of her minded children look alike with blond curls and are aged 12 months, 2yo, and 3yo.

60 quid a day ??!!!! Ours is £3 an hour!

Huge generalisation, I'd say, but then I suspect our CM is unusual in that she doesn't have any children of her own. She was put on this earth to care for children and truly adores DD. She's also never taken her to a group, but as DD hated it the last time we tried one I think that's probably a good thing.

It's like anything- there are good and bad childminders, there are good and bad nurseries. I went to see a lot of childminders before choosing one for my DD2, she loves going there, it is a real home from home for her.

There is a childminder who lives round the corner from me, who would be much more convenient but I didn't even consider her- she always looks miserable as sin!

I haven't knowingly come across many childminders at toddler groups - it's possible I assumed some CM's were mums.

But the one that I know to be a childminder was lovely with the kids, I kept bumping into her at surestart kids sessions and local toddler groups, and she was always giving the kids lots of care and attention. She told me that her own kids were in secondary school though, so the question of whether or not she'd give her own kids preferential treatment is perhaps less of an issue when the CM's kids are older.

Hmm, as a kid my aunt was a cm and looked after me sometimes, as well as her grandaughter. We certainly never felt preferentially treated. My aunt is still in close touch with her mindees and regularly updates me proudly on their lives. She shows photos of their babies as though they were grandchildren or something.

cold We looked at a lot of different cms too and didn't even consider the 2 that would have been most convenient as they look miserable and don't seem to do very much with the children. I rejected another one because she confidently told me that dd would be into a nap routine within 3 days which seemed odd to me as the only thing I hadn't tried by that point was controlled crying which I didn't want for my 6mo baby.

condo my cm is £3.50 per hour and that's quite cheap round here but she has 3 children most days which takes her up to £10.50 per hour, not including the extra she gets from school drop off/pick up. It's almost enough to make me think it would be worth setting myself up as a cm.

I went to a cm as a kid and was treated wonderfully, just like one of her own.

I have been going to playgroup for 2 years. I only found out last week that one of the women there is a cm. I thought both dc were hers.

Dd is 3 and has been going to her new cm for 2 weeks now. The other morning she asked if she was going there, and when I said yes she cheered. Whatever she's doing, it's working. I originally sent my dc to nurseries because of the same sorts of views of cms that are on this thread (own children vs minded children, fitting in with school runs) but having used a nursery for 2 years and a cm (different one) for a year I have to say I've felt a lot happier leaving my children with a cm than nursery - and I liked the nursery too. But the cms I've used, its felt like leaving my children with a friend who has her own children and is competent and capable.

It's so refreshing to to hear a more positive view on childminders. I think as adults we really have to be realistic and realise that there is good and bad in all professions.

There is also this misconception that childminders are underpaid - therefore their heart is not in their job. Most childminders earn a very decent fee. In my area, the average price for childminders is £60 a day per child. Bear in mind that you could have three full timers plus after schools - it's hardly anything to grumble about.

Childminders have spent the last few years to prove themselves to be the professionals they are and should be recognised for. Long gone are the days it was just for pin money. We undergo regular training, follow a structured EYFS framework (that is forever developing), we create profiles, observations, track milestones, plan activities to help develop individual children's needs. We are solely responsible for paying our own tax and keeping record of expenses and so on. This is what is required of us under OFSTED just like in a nursery (minus the self employed bit obviously)

I know the above doesn't guarantee a good childminder, but neither does it a nursery worker. But it does show that childminders have come a long way and are far more regulated now. There is more structure and procedure to help childminders support the children's development and ensure children's safety.

While I understand that we all have our own preferences and experiences. It's a tad harsh to somewhat alienate mothers that use mumsnet but have also chosen childminding as their career by making such sweeping statements.

I've used both childminders and nursery for my children over the years.
There's both pros and cons for both.

My CM is £6/hour, and she has 2 mindees. I think if you want a smaller ratio of attention you probably do pay more for it.

Anecdote aside, all the evidence for children under 2 is that outcomes are better with a childminder. It was Raising Happy Children's chapter on the issue which made my mind up. DD is also at nursery 2 mornings a week now and they don't really know what she's capable of. I'm not being PFB about it, it's just a fact. I'm constantly being expected to marvel at her ability to do stuff her CM and I taught her months ago...

That's the other good thing about my CM incidentally - I can say to her, we've been looking at numbers / dinosaurs / whatever, and she'll immediately pick up the baton and do the same. I get very little feedback from nursery really.