Broken hearted over my DS

[DistressedMumHELP]

Okay, i want help and reassurance really. I have name changed for this in case anyone recognises me. I was stopped and asked for an account of events yesterday after witnessing an altercation and the police officer noticed the bruise on my little boys cheek. Which i explained was where he had fallen in between the step and bench in my garden, they then noticed he has bruises on his legs around his knees, so eventually they arrested me on suspicion of ABH. I was of course a mess, but i was told at the time that it was procedure etc, so i was compliant with them, Last night i got released on police bail and was of course expecting my little boy back, but today after seeing social services they have said i cant have him returned to me. I am heart broken, i have never hurt my child on purpose, and i look after him as best as possible. Originally they were saying he didnt talk, but today in front of the social worker he was talking, and i am trying to explain that he gets shy about talking, when they say he is friendly etc. They went through all my history and i have been as open as possible with them, and i dont know what to do. They want to keep him in care and are applying for a court order on friday to do so. I plan on seeing a solicitor tomorrow, the only reason i didnt today was because i didnt leave the social services until half 5 so no where was open.

I NEED A HUG. I PROMISE I WOULD NEVER HURT HIM AND FEEL THAT JUST A FEW BRUISES HAVE TAKEN MY SON FROM ME.

I want him home. Does anyone have any experiences? How long will it take? They said they couldnt say,

I would rather an over zealous society in regards to child protection than one that didn't check things out.

So sorry you're going through this OP, but you've been through a great deal, you'll get through this too!

I agree with wordfactory though. Please don't vilify those doing their jobs, blame the system if you think it's over zealous.

I hope your DS is home and comfy soon. x

lurking- the overzealosness isn't making children safer though- it is taking resources away from genuine cases

there is a postcode lottery over who gets their child removed from them- that is never fair!

seperating a child from his mum like this could cause long term psychological damage as well as damage to the mother-child bond - it isnt no risk

In many cases, not separating children from abusive parents results in severe injury or death to a child.
Social services and police are in difficult situations. If we did not perform our jobs to the best of our ability, and a child is murdered by a parent, there is a huge public outcry. If the public perceivs that we are doing too little to protect our charges, than we are lazy and inept.
I will always err on the side of caution, especially where physical evidence is present when assessing a potential abuse case.

Cynner, well said. Much as I feel for the OP and other innocent parents in her situation, I would far rather that the authorities err on the side of caution for the sake of the children whose parents may not be so innocent. It's an awful situation, but where concerns are raised, they have to be checked out.

I do sometimes pity the poor social workers who seem to get the blame for negligence and over-zealousness in almost equal measure. Yes, they are human and will get it wrong sometimes, with potentially disastrous consequences, but I believe that the vast majority are doing the very best they can, to do a very difficult job in very difficult circumstances, with the best interests of our children at heart. Vilifying them will not help them to do a better job, and nor will it help the poor OP to get her much-loved little boy back.

I can only hope that the investigation in this case will quickly conclude that the little boy is not at risk, and that he can be reunited with his mum as soon as possible.

I wonder, OP, if that isn't helping?

Put your history, together with the slight developmental 'delays' that have been noted, the fact that you've moved twice in a short period of time, and aren't involved with local child services in any way, then the altercation and the bruising..it does sound quite unstable.

Perhaps this will be resolved when they can sit down and sort it all through with you?

I have to say, I have 3 children, one of whom marks remarkably easily. I mean, even brushing her hair causes red patches on the back of her neck. She is covered in bruises, and we have SW involvement because of her special needs. Whenever she gets a particularly amazing bruise, I always write in her home-school book that DD1 has a new bruise, it's in x location, and she did y to get it. It's just an acknowledgement from me that I am aware the bruise may look suspicious.

I believe you.

I could have been in a similar situation myself a few months ago. I was still with ex at the time. We had an argument, he had been drinking so I said I was leaving for the night with my baby and called a taxi. He followed me outside, shouting and crying.

Someone called the police, who turned up two days later. Ex was arrested on suspicion of assault even though I told then he hadnt touched me. Because I had my child in my arms at the time it was reported to social services.

The social worker actually told me that unless I was careful and did everything I was told they would remove my child as it would be seen that I was failing to safeguard him against someone that had been accused of assaulting me whilst holding him. They strongly advised me to leave him and get a preventative steps order, to close a joint bank account and to remove his stuff from my house. I did it all straight away. I got the order even though there was no evidence against exp, we split up.

They were convinced he was beating me and I was to scared to say so. He was emotionally abusive to be fair but they were not aware of that. My baby was checked for bruises, my house was searched, I had lots of visits over a month.

As soon as I got my residency order and they were satisfied that contact was in the hands of a solicitor they closed the case and write to me thanking me for listening to their advice and co operating with them.

I would have done anything they had asked of me. I even baked them biscuits to go with their tea, I never questioned them and was lucky.

It was all over nothing. It is so scary that I could've had my child removed as ex is now missing out on time with his child as I has no other choice but to make it so.

of course it was not over nothing Mammy you where fleeing an abusive drunk in the night with a baby, that is not a normal and stable environment and you needed the support and advice to understand that.

OP I believe you and I also think there is a real possibility that you may lose contact with your child forever.

Seeing a solicitor is a great first step.

Here are some other places which offer help and advice:

www.aims.org.uk/
www.forced-adoption.com/contact.asp

To everyone saying 'oh well there must to be more to this story, Social Services wouldn't take a child into care unless there was more to it' and other similar comments. How on earth would you know? Family courts are held in secret. It may seem like common sense that children aren't removed unless there are serious problems, but unfortunately that simply is not the case. Social services have the legal power to remove a child against parental consent even when they do not think that any abuse has actually taken place and the child is not in immediate danger. This is the reality that people just don't get.

Even if you have worked in child protection, you only know about the culture and procedures where you worked. It varies across the country.

Children are removed from capable loving parents more often that most people really realise, and the devastating consequences are far reaching. Anyone who doubts this, just google forced adoption and check it out for yourselves. The Telegraph has written a few articles on this.

OP get as much help and advice as you can.

Sorry, to clarify, I'm not sure about Social Services rights to physically remove a child, (I believe police must be present if parents do not consent but I also understand that SS can put a lot of pressure on parents to comply) however, a court protection order can be made on the basis of various grounds such as, for example, 'possibility of future emotional abuse' so children can be removed from families even when no abuse has actually taken place.

Beattheodds, I guarantee you, we in social services are not crouching in our offices plotting to take children away from " good loving parents". We are far too busy working with families and children in need of support and services. Unless you work in the field, you have no idea what happens.

Yes There are reasons a child who has not been abused in the past IS at risk of seriouse harm or in imediate danger and if parents or a parent is unable or willing to put the needs of thier children over thier own and show adequate measures to protect thier children, then social services do and should become involved.

This often happens when entering into relationships with abusive partners or those with a history of past perpetraory behaviour. Often also surrounding the use of drugs and or alcohol. You are foolish to read and believe what you read in the papers or reported by a particular public figure as there people are often still failing to admit thier behaviour or relationships where causing danger to thier own children, these are the details that are often publicly ommited when reported in the paper etc.

Social services do not have the funds to simply remove children left right and centre with no reason and those who believe they regualrly and deliberatly do are deluded.

Of course not Cynner. I'm pretty sure that in almost all cases where a child is removed, social workers genuinely believe they are doing the right thing. Often they are. Unfortunately, sometimes a social worker believes it is the right thing to remove a child even when there is no immediate risk to him/her and no evidence of abuse, and that decision gets supported by a court. Just because you have worked hard to protect the welfare of children does not mean that the system itself is just, accountable, proportionate or working properly.

I'd be interested on your view on whether family courts should continue to be held in secret. (although perhaps not the place to discuss this.)

Good luck OP.

Not regularly and deliberately Troll, but the system does seem to need serious reform.

Hi distressed

Just wondered how you were getting on?

BeatTheOdds, that forced adoption link makes for chilling reading.

I'd agree that family courts shouldn't be held in secret - surely it'd be possible to remove the secrecy so that the case can be discussed and still provide anonymity. Victims in rape trials, for instance, can't be legally named by the media unless they themselves choose to disclose their identity.

But this probably isn't the time or place to discuss it.

well i can testify from both sides of this coin that something really does have to be pretty amiss.

my SF broke my fingers with a garden cane. he made me eat food that was unfit for consumption, he split my lip and broke my nose. I was 11. the abuse began at 7. It peaked at 11, and then continued until i fled at the age of 15. SS removed me temporarily and then interviewed me in front of both parents when they returned to 'monitor' things. SS do not seem to be very keen on permanently removing children.

I now work in this field.

I can safely say that it is virtually impossible to get a child removed for nothing more than a coincidental bruise on a childs face and a false allegation of assault. I am currently working on a case that would horrify most of you. If the mother posted here you would all pat her back im sure and tell her what horrid nasty people all those wicked police and social workers are for removing children for nothing....and of course professionalism prevents those who work in this field to spill any of it.

its all pretty fucked up.

This is why children die, or live in squalor, or are abused. it still happens. i see it every single depressingly familiar (working) day.

Well of course social workers get it wrong sometimes. As do the police. As do the courts. As do we all.

It's childish to expect an infallible system.

However, some mistakes do not justify villifying the system or presenting it as some conspiracy.

Children cannot be removed willy nilly from parents. The police do that. Then the SS have to apply for a court order and courts do not rubber stamp applications for care orders.

The law is very specific.

Every year millions of pounds are spent hearing contested care cases.
Every parent and every child is represented during such proceedings.

I believe you op, the policeman obviously had suspicions due to his bruises and the situation that needed to be checked but ss often find it easier to focus on vulnerable people than genuine thugs who really do abuse their children and who would target for violence any social worker who tried to come after them.

Some children (and adults!) do bruise easily, some are naturally tiny, some speak later (especially boys), some are shyer and wouldn't speak in front of a stranger at all, none of those things makes you an abuser.

I can't imagine what you're going through right now, it's heartbreaking, I wish I had something useful to say because I feel terrible for you but the only thing which will make things better is the return of your son. You didn't do anything to deserve this, you didn't ask for that nasty, racist thug to start on your friend. What an unimaginably horrible situation to be in and all because you were with the victim of a crime.

I hope you get your son back. Best of luck

Word factory you have obviously never been a parent caught on the wrong side of the system. It is deeply flawed and is harming children not helping them.

You appear to have a lot of trust in the system wordfactory. But the legal test is surprisingly low, and court decisions are not accountable to the public. Generally speaking, the public have no idea that a child can (and the legal precedent exists) be removed and adopted (which is irreversible) even when abuse is not even suspected. That is in the law. And no, the law is not very specific at all, that's one of the problems. Emotional abuse, for example, is not legally defined. And yet a court order can be granted if a social worker convinces a judge that they have reason to suspect a child might suffer such undefined abuse, in the future. Court orders can, and have been, made on the flimsiest of 'evidence.' Children can, and have been, removed on the sole basis that the mother has learning difficulties.

I do not expect an infallible system. But I do expect one with better safeguards than the one we have at the moment.

What precedent is that?
Could you give the case refernce?