Help me figure out my 8 month old before I kill myself with frustration :(

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Help. My beautiful 8 month old dd2 is driving me, DH and dd1 crazy. She is non stop miserable and frustrated.

She moans CONSTANTLY and it is fucking constant. Crying whingeing fretting and shouting, all the damn time. I have at times screamed in frustration with her. Dd1 (7) cried. DH gets cross and has to go outside.

I just don't know what is wrong with her. I know it's the usual teething etc and hot weather plus weaning wearing her out but Jesus I think something else is there underneath.

I am trying so hard to be a good mum and give both the girls a stimulating and calming environment but for the last fortnight I feel I have run out of steam with dd2. I cuddle her and she writhes away moaning. All she wants is to be carried up and down the garden and through the house. DH spends all out evenings doing this. We are both exhausted and getting depressed about it. Help us please.

DD when through this stage, can't remember what the HV said it was but she did out grow it, its shit but will pass

I'm hoping so. Can't remember this with dd1. She was 8 weeks early so I can't help thinking I have spoiled her carrying her everywhere and never letting her cry when she was tiny as I was so worried about her little lungs. I know that's silly.

She badly wants to crawl and stand up I think that's a lot to do with it. But she has such a small window of being occupied/happy. I honestly rarely sit down and it goes on all evening which I think is the worst thing. DH and I don't get a conversation without her whingeing. It's driving us apart and dd1 is quiet all the time. Sad :(

What is her routine like. She needs two naps a day and to be in bed by seven in my experience. I have three, two of whom were unsettled!

How long has she been like this. It is common for them to get frustrated before a big developmental hurdle. Or she could be sickening for something. It might be worth getting her checked at gp for ear infections etc.

Finally you and your dp need to pull together. So one of you needs to do some fun things with dd1 rather than the whole focus of the house being the crying baby.

I really had this too OP - DH would walk out . So difficult. I agree with Franup - when I got the napping sorted, regular naps, same time of day - it really helped. It WILL pass. It doesn't help when it's hot either. Try and get out and about - make a meal of going to the supermarket, visit some friends, do something every day. My DS turned the corner at 12mo when he started walking and by 14mo was generally a very contented baby. Keep at it!

Also have you tried a treasure basket? Yes though perhaps she needs more frequent naps?

I know a lot of people hate them, but have you tried her in a walker? That really helped DS with his frustration of wanting to be mobile (but you should only put them in for 25 minutes and don't leave them alone for even a second - and obviously don't let them anywhere near any stairs!!)

(DS was in his a lot and walked by 10 months so I don't think it delayed his walking, and if it did then thank god!)

Wake at 8. Breastfeed and play until ten when she usually falls asleep again. Just a short nap.

Lunch at twelve. Then a longer nap until around two thirty.

Tea between four and five. Usually she has a good settled period after her tea when she will play or watch tv with dd1 for half an hour. The. Whingeing starts again.

She usually gets so upset that I end up letting her nap again about six, just to give dd1 some peace. Plus I need to make dinner for DH and I. When DH gets in around half six he will take her and she is usually playful for a while then Mardy again. We rarely get to eat together. Dd1 goes to bed. Dd2 goes on nursing strike and will go mad if a bottle is offered to her. She is a complete bottle hater. She usually goes down between nine and ten, but is back in my bed by one am, for a restless night of kicking, feeding and wriggling. Fucking exhausted.

I do try with dd1 and make time for her when dd2 naps but I am so dog tired and the house needs sorting a lot of the time so I have to think on my feet to amuse dd1. DH tends to take her out on bike rides at the moment making the most of the light evenings.

She has a walker and loves it. Her maximum period of loving anything is only ten minutes though.

What's a treasure basket?

Treasure baskets are excellent... Look on website the imagination tree - loads of excellent ideas for what to put in them!

Basically they are baskets full of interesting objects!

I think maybe her naps are still not long enough

At this age we would have done;

9.30- 1hr nap
1pm -2 hrs nap
4.30- 30min nap

Awake for more than 3 hrs became meltdown time

Now at 14 months

9.30 - 45 mins
1pm -2hrs

I think waking at 2.30pm until 7 is a v long time for a little one.

Have you tried a back sling? We use beco gemini and is great for little ones who want to be carried a lot. Hopefully mean you can get on with whatever around house/ out and she can be with you but not in way as behind and free hands. They can see lots and seem interested in boring things like washing up!

A treasure basket is a basket/ box with natural/ household things in they can explore of different senses and textures. Ie: kitchen whisk, bath sponge, pine cone, any random things you find around house or outside.
Even just a clean hairbrush/ wooden spoon. You can change around regularly

Perhaps she needs a longer morning nap? I kept a record of DS's naps, but can't find it atm. He always woke for the day around 7 and was zonked by 8.30. I used to think he was just whingey, but then realised I needed to put him back down about an hour after waking.

If your DD is not sleeping very long, you'll need to put her down more frequently until the naps get longer. Does she go down for naps easily? When I missed a nap and then resorted to a late 6pm nap the nights were always worse, so probably a good idea to avoid if possible. Also, 10 hours overnight doesn't sound like very long. I'm sure the poor thing is as dog-tired as you.

Re reading I would def say she is overtired causing wake ups etc

Try aiming for 3 naps a day for a month then if she can manage dropping afternoon ( usually around a year)

After long midday nap, give her a snack/ milk say 3.30 ish

This will keep her going to allow for slightly later dinner, so she could have another nap say 4.30 for half an hour ( wake if still asleep at 5.30), then dinner after will help her go through night as won't be so hungry in early hours

Milk before bed at say 8 ish

15-16 hrs per 24hrs is the average amount that's recommended at that age

Hope some of that may help

( ps you seem to have it vaguely routined anyway do just tweaking slightly.)

Also.. You can do chores during naps am and pm but the 2 hrs lunch time are yours to nap/ read/ relax. You don't have to entertain 24/7 so I'm sure she can watch you cook ( high chair with toys), or hang washing etc..

Daytime sounds good! Night-time : at six when she gets beyond tired she needs to be wound down for bed. It is natural for babies to want to go to bed for their night sleep between six and seven. So at six take her up to for a feed then a bath and out of bath into night clothes and feed in a dimly lit room and then into the cot. She may be in bed by 6.30 so dp may not see that much of her on work days - but he can spend lots of time with her at weekends or maybe have breakfast with her. If she wakes after seven refeed and settle her in the bedroom and her cot. Don't bring her back down. Though I suspect after a few nights she will sleep through the evening. You and dp should then get some quiet time together in the evening and dd gets some time with you before bed. I personally would cook for all the family and then leave your portions to reheat and eat later. I don't get cooking twice and tbh in our house whoever in in with the kids eats with them. But I realise this isn't for everyone.

I think high maintenance babies need a good evening sleep for everyone to have a break. They often don't do well in more flexible routines as babies.

She will improve when she can crawl and then talk. Ime contented baby parents get a shock when crawling starts. Those of us with more unsettled ones breath a deep sigh of relief when they can finally move! And it won't determine her toddler personality at all, I promise.

When dp comes home tell him you are devoting the next month to sorting bedtime out. Be anal for a month and you will crack it I think!

Well, we eat when we want to eat, not when the kids want to! As DH is usually home nearly three hours after the kids have eaten!

I do sometimes cook the same thing for all the family but sometimes we don't want to eat spaghetti hoops. Sometimes we want a proper meal. The kids then get what we have had the next day.

I just can't see her going down between six and seven! Going on previous experience it will take me until nine to get her down, then I am frankly too knackered to engage in decent conversation with anyone and can just about manage a cursory glance at the news before creeping into bed defeated.

Oh and that treasure basket thing. How novel. We already give her all those things. Just not in a basket.

She only chucks them on the floor anyway.

9pm for bed is just way too late. It has a knock on effect because she ought to be up at 7. Unfortunately once you are in a pattern of her getting up too late and going down too late, it is hard to break it.

Forevergreek's timings above are spot on and adding in times for at the beginning and end of the day, you get:

7/7.30 - wake her up
9.30- 1hr nap
1pm -2 hrs nap
4.30- 30min nap
7/7.30 - bed

Where it seems to be slipping is that she is missing a little nap late afternoon (4.30pm) and is then running out of steam and napping at 6pm. She is then too awake to settle at 7/7.30pm and you are struggling with an over tired baby until 9pm.

Obviously kids aren't robots so you can't switch it overnight but try and get her down for a nap late afternoon and hopefully she will be ok till 6 when you can do bath and then bed by 7/7.30. She may not like it to start as she has been used to staying up later. I don't know whether you're someone who can bear to put them down and let them cry for a bit but given that she's crying all the time anyway and you're at the end of your tether, it's worth a go.

Good luck!

I agree with shmarn's routine, all of mine were roughly doing that. She sounds incredibly overtired.

Was she always like this? Or is it recent?

She might be frustrated and I agree with the posters who said that an earlier bed time might help.

Does she have any skin / bowel issues? (my little grumpy pants had food / bowel issues)

Sorting sleep will help. Give yourself two weeks and a proper sleep plan so you don't get frustrated and expect instant changes. Within two weeks if you have and stick to a plan, you should see a change. Focus on getting her in a routine during the day and on teaching her to self settle at 7 ish. Once you have cracked this, you can then start to work on the nights and you will all start to feel more human.

During the day, if 10 minutes is her attention span, know and remember this with a plan for the next activity so you are not constantly feeling that it is not within your control.

While you are working on her sleep / routine, get take aways, plan treats, play dates, dvd's for dd1 and know that it will improve and you will get the house back in contr when you get your evenings back. Also, talk to your DH so you are both in on the plan and work together on it.

Good luck!!

Very very similar to what we had with DS at five to eight months. He learned to crawl a few weeks later (big lad) and all the previous bullshit we'd had to put up with - crying and whining for 6-8 hours a day on and off, and poor sleep - got so much better very quickly. Then there was another period when it all went to shit just before he walked.

There is nothing you can do about this if that is the cause, it will just work itself out. But it may be that the routine is contributing - I don't know. It looks all right to me, except I wouldn't have the nap at 6pm if I could avoid it at all, and try for a 6.30 bedtime. But only you will know if that's a feasible target to work towards. Maybe try some of the suggestions above? Also, I know it's what a lot of people do, but I would not be putting up with an eight month old behaving like that in my bed at 1am - it must be destroying you. Time for own room?

Is she still unhappy when you hold her, or just not wanting to be put down, but happy when being held?

If she's happy being held, I'd sugges it's a developmental thing, possibly mixed with some tiredness/impending teeth or sickness. Evolutionally they have a clingy stage just before they can move, to stop them crawling out of the cave and into danger. Major PIA, but it passes.

If she's unhappy whilst being held, and needs constant movement/comfort, I'd suggest the GP - check for ear infection, food issues etc. That doesn't sound normal to be unhappy for EVERY waking moment and needing constant comfort.

This is hard, draining and extremely frustrating, but hopefully she will either grow out of it tomorrow, or the GP might find something useful to help.

Auburn lizzy I take her back to bed because I am barely functioning and all my best laid plans go to pot at 1am

Jenny, she seems happy to just be held and walked around. Unfortunately we aren't happy with this after four hours because she is fat and has many chins. You wouldn't think she was just over three pounds born!

Right since I started the thread, she has had a two hour twenty minute nap from ten to one until around three fifteen.

Then she had a short ten minute nap about half four (breastfed herself to a coma as got very upset).

She has had tea and messed around with the majority of it. So not eaten a great deal.

She has had her bath and pyjamas on and is now calm and quiet on her baby gym watching the dreaded NG. What time should I try for bed?

Bear in mind she won't have a bottle and will stretch breastfeeding out for a very long time if she can.

Dd1 is in the bath playing. DH not home yet.

Misty b this is a recent development. But she has always been a super attached boob/cuddle monster. I have not put this child down for many months. It's the whingeing that's new. I think it's developmental.

Auburnlizzy, about the six o clock nap, I know this is bad but I just can't find it in myself to wake her as I am usually on a knife edge by this point and desperate for a meal, sit down and some quiet!

But I know it's delaying bedtime further.

Dd1 was a complete dream. We had no problems, she was firmly out of our room by four months and would take bottles when I'd had enough of feeding her myself. Not so dd2!

Once NG is finished upstairs and feed and try for bed.