How the hell do you discipline a 21 month old?

[marzipananimal]

I'm open to suggestions from anyone - from Smackers to AP hippies! (Can you tell I'm a bit desperate?!)

DS is generally a pretty good natured, lively toddler and is reasonably laid back BUT he has a real cheeky/defiant streak that I'm really struggling to deal with. I try distraction or 'you can't do that but you can do this' type thing but that doesn't work for every situation.

Particular problems at the moment are: biting (me and DH, not other children fortunately), throwing food, touching oven, and opening fridge freezer.

I'm tearing my hair out at times. I think it's difficult because I'm not entirely surely how much he understands (he's not talking much yet so communication can be tricky), and I struggle to keep my temper :(

Any advice gratefully received.

At about that age I used to use the naughty corner.
By that I mean that when DS was naughty, I picked him up and sat him down in the corner of the room, facing into the corner.
This separated him from whoever or whatever had been involved in the problem. It also separated him from everyone else in the room and made him feel alone.
I never held him there and I never made him sit there for any particular length of time. He was free to stand up and walk away immediately if he wanted. He usually stayed there for a little while though.
However, the mere fact of being sat there usually had the desired effect. It shocked him a little and upset him just enough to show him that what he had been doing was wrong.
I found it quite effective with a child who was too young for the naughty step etc.

Thanks Ruthchan, I have done similar but he just runs back laughing!
Maybe if I persisted it might help.

I too always found it a problem with 1 and 2 year olds understanding that they are in trouble. They often laugh it off, which drives me crazy!
The combination of a stern 'no' and putting him in the corner, repetitively if necessary, may get through to him...

i don't really think you can, which is why they are so bloody exhausting.
with DD2 we use a firm NO, and remove her from whatever harm she is about to cause or come to. and repeat, and repeat, and repeat.......
honestly, it did work with dd1. eventually.

You have taken me back. DC2 used to say "One, two, three," to me and then run off when she had been naughty, having seen me say t to DC1!

Take away attention. A firm "No,", and for biting plonk him on the floor or move away for a minute. Rather like Ruthchan says infact.

FWIW DC2 has only ever bitten DH, myself and her siblings. Your child may confine it to loved ones if that helps.

Put some kind of tape or a lock on the fridge freezer. The time you miss it will be just after you have stocked up...

You don't, its a waste of time. Remove from situation and distract. Praise the good and ignore the bad. Try saying 've gentle' rather than 'dont hit' etc

Fridge lock? Otherwise agree with Jareth.

Thanks for replies. Any tips on keeping calm when I remove his teeth from my leg for the 15th time that hour?
Should I use very cross voice or calm voice?
When do they get old enough for more active discipline? (eg time out)

We do have a freezer lock but it's so difficult to undo/do up that we don't close it often, and for the same reason I don't want to put one on the fridge.

No tips that would help. Star jumps and singing loudly don't help me keep my cool. I just look crackers whilst I lose it.

One should in theory use calm voice at all times, occasionally low and firm. Shrieking like a harpy is less productive, but much more common in my house.

I didn't use time out until well over two. The brief lack of attention will do the trick at his age. Seriously, staying calm will help, however unrealistic it seems, as even negative attention is attention to a toddler.

DS is also 21mo. This is what I do not necassarily right about each of your scenarios- all of which DS does too:

Biting- Make exaggerated sad/ hurt face and say 'Oh, you hurt mummy, ow!' (whilst removing teeth!) then, if agitated, turn him around and sit him on my lap facing away and hold him firmly and silently until he calms down. He hasn't bitten for a while which I put down mostly to hamming up the sad face.

Throwing food- say 'no throwing!' and take food away. Give it back one tiny piece at a time. If throws anything given give up on that mealtime.

Touching oven- baby gate on kitchen.

Opening fridge- fridge lock. Pick your battles!

Is he teething? Ds bites sometimes when he is. Fruit / juice / smoothies that are frozen help more than teething meds we find. Long sleeves and thick clothes. Its a fine line between letting him know it hurts and creating such an entertaining reaction he wants to do it again.

Yes the fridge and freezer is a pain. I let ds because he is not putting on much weight and not really talking so he points at food / drinks he wants out of the fridge. I put eggs etc at the back where he can't find them easily. If I am in the other room and he comes through with a random branston pickle jar, I ask if he closed the fridge door and he goes and does it!

Touching oven, I tell him its hot and owww rather than just No, so he starts to get the difference between things you prefer him to leave and things that are dangerous.

Throwing food, thank gawd ds has stopped this. I went for constant "We don't throw food, its a waste and makes a mess someone has to clean up." Also try and get them to help you clear up, although it actually makes more mess, its a good principle I think that when you screw up you should try to find some way to make amends.

My dd is 20 months and we really struggle with this too but this week I've been starting her telling offs by saying "is babyporridge a good girl?" To which she always says "yes" and then I remind her that good girls don't bite/hit/scream/throw etc etc and it actually seems to be working, well working better than immediately saying "thats naughty" . I think I enjoy being a bit more positive too, I get sick if hearing myself say "thats naughty" all the time!

For hitting etc, try keeping your patiences and saying ' no gentle', whilst at the same time stroking whatever body part on him. So if he hits face, you stroke his and say no we need to be gentle, and emphasis gentle over and over.

This is why smacking a child really gives the wrong message as they eventually learn what is right and wrong, and need you as a good example of a better way

I got fed up being bitten. 'Mummy ouch. Mummy sad. Mummy hurt' didn't work with DS who wasn't at all empathetic at that stage. So I bit back... hard enough to register ... just once and then said 'NO'. He looked , cried a bit, gave me a hug and we didn't have any more biting. My DM happened to be there and was absolutely horrified. Flame away :)

Thanks all, we had a bit of a better day yesterday. I did lots of sad face/crying when he bit me and he looked a bit bemused but thoughtful. He might be teething but no other symptoms of it at the mo.

x-post cogito. I did try that the other day but possibly didn't bite hard enough (!) as he didn't really cry. It hasn't worked and I don't think I can bring myself to do it again - I have been secretly hoping another child will bite him though and that might get the message across!
It's a right pain though isn't it? I've had some really nasty bruises from some of his worse bites

With biting I offered something else to bite, I found one if his old teething rings. If his language is good, you can talk to him once he's calmed down - I think DS must have been a little bit older. Trying to intercept before the teeth make contact - hand on the forehead or shoulder to push them away helps to just give you the split second to remind them "We don't bite people. Where is your ring?" Never grab a child by the arm, you can really hurt them.

The thing with biting them back is what if it doesn't work... then where do you go from there? (I know someone who this happened to!)

Could you try another fridge lock? Or just keep supervising him when in there. Perhaps a stairgate on the kitchen door full stop? DS went through a phase of taking everything out of the fridge (the seal on the freezer was stronger) and I didn't put a lock on it but just kept taking everything off him and putting it on the counter which was out of his reach. It was okay in the main although I did forget to put a few things back - I just bought smaller cartons of milk etc less often so it was less to go off (and less in there). Also hiding the yoghurts, apples etc behind cabbages or meat or other boring looking things.

For the oven - plant some hot things around. Perhaps in your next shop, plan in some things like casseroles, roasts or baking which need to be cooked slowly on a low temperature. Make cups of tea and leave them within his reach (watching him obv!) Put the heating on?

Whenever he goes to touch one of the hot things, tell him "Ow! Hot!" and then let him touch it to see what "hot" means. Touching a closed oven on a warm temperature won't burn him, neither will a radiator (if they are freakishly hot then turn them down!) or the outside of a tea mug. If you think he might pull it over himself, use a thick mug, pour the boiling water in and wait a few minutes, then top up (about half) with cold from the tap. The liquid will not be hot enough to scald but the mug will feel hot to touch.

Do some baking with him/when you're making the dinner, open the oven door, stand back a bit and let him feel the heat coming out of the oven, obv don't let him touch the actual inside. Tell him "Look, this is really hot. Can you feel that? If you touched it it would burn you and that would really really hurt."

Don't do the biting him, you are actually giving all kinds of wrong messages. I had a special firm voice for NO! Which reduced my youngest to tears.

The best is to do your best to ignore bad behaviour, somewhere safe you can dump them when bad is a good idea (in a play pen, their cot, behind a baby gate). But say very little, and ignore as much as possible, except for one NO. But this does have to be combined with working hard on lots of good attention when they are good.

My trickiest was with a 2 1/2 and a new born, the eldest would be naughty just out of reach whenever I started to feed the youngest. I tried to give them good attention before feeds were due, then allow a video of Thomas while feeding. Prediction of when they are naughty does help.

Oh yes - once he's realised what "hot" means he will instinctively avoid whenever you say that, which should help with other hot things.

I don?t think you can discipline them exactly, but you can say no we don't do.. whatever it is and walk away if they are hitting you or whatever. When they stop the "naughty" behaviour or come to get a cuddle without biting or hitting you can give them lots of praise and cuddles so they get the idea that they don?t get any attention if they hit or bite etc. I have noticed that if we make a fuss of any behaviour we don?t want to see, our LO sometimes giggles and does it even more, to get us to react. Sometimes quietly saying no, then ignoring, or going away works better. Our LO (21 MO) does kick you a bit when she is upset/frustrated so generally we try to head the tantrum off before it gets underway by asking her to point or show us what she wants and this often works. She?s not really a hurter in general, but when she has a tantrum she doesn't care who she hurts (including herself) and most of them are about her not being able to communicate something to us as she doesn?t have much language at all yet. She isn?t being naughty on purpose, she just gets very frustrated and upset by not being able to tell us something.

I dont know.

gah! just typed long reply then the internet ate it

This: www.amazon.co.uk/Unconditional-Parenting-Moving-Rewards-Punishments/dp/0743487486

sc could you briefly describe what the UP approach would be to biting? (If you know)

My DD same age bit me recently. It was genuinely agony and I screamed 'aaaaawwww!' then moved her away from me looked at her and said 'aaaaawwww you've really hurt mummy it's really really sore and started rubbing my arm'. She looked really upset as if she was going to cry then gave me a hug and stroked my arm. Definitely worked. Then she reinacted the whole thing with Iggle piggle.