How the hell do you discipline a 21 month old?

[marzipananimal]

I'm open to suggestions from anyone - from Smackers to AP hippies! (Can you tell I'm a bit desperate?!)

DS is generally a pretty good natured, lively toddler and is reasonably laid back BUT he has a real cheeky/defiant streak that I'm really struggling to deal with. I try distraction or 'you can't do that but you can do this' type thing but that doesn't work for every situation.

Particular problems at the moment are: biting (me and DH, not other children fortunately), throwing food, touching oven, and opening fridge freezer.

I'm tearing my hair out at times. I think it's difficult because I'm not entirely surely how much he understands (he's not talking much yet so communication can be tricky), and I struggle to keep my temper :(

Any advice gratefully received.

Am watching this with interest, my 20 month DS throws toys / remote / anything in site, pulls things he doesn't normally touch over and also head bangs when has a tantrum which currently happens at least daily. We try 'no we don't throw etc' being down at his level, speaking firmly and with a firm grasp of his arm / body but doesn't do anything. Have a 6 week old DD. Tantrums happening before she was born so don't think it's related but he def plays up more when I'm busy with DD feeding, which makes chasing around the house stopping destruction difficult. Thinking of getting travel cot out for 'naughty area'??!!...

a firm 'no' and move him away. If he carries on then into his playpen or cot for a bit. DS2 is now 2.4 and he is slowly getting the message. He will stop and think when he's about to do something naughty and tell himself 'no, naughty' and move his own hand away

UP is about responding in a way which is appropriate to your child, there isn't a one size fits all method. But any of the redirection methods on here would be a UP approach.

So, offering an alternative to bite, explaining that it hurts etc. Offering an alternative and stating in a matter of fact way that "You can bite this but not people" helped us. UP is also more about the long term approach so as well as this you'd try to help them manage their anger before it got to the biting stage, so when they look like they're starting to get angry, validate the feeling, give it a name ("You look cross about that. You wish Mummy would let you have another biscuit.") show them that you listen and you do care, always explain your reasoning (at that age "They're all gone" went down better than "Because it's nearly dinner time" though!) if they're still getting cross you can show them alternatives, even try to engage (Can you throw this bean bag to show me how angry you are?/Let's see how hard we can hit this sofa. I bet I'm crosser than you!/Can you draw me a picture to show how you feel?/Are you this angry? This angry? etc) - this diffuses it and also shows them that it's okay to be angry (it is!) but that it's not okay to physically take it out on people.

Also just recognising that she's 21 months old and that something which might not seem a big deal to you is a huge one to her. Try to pre-empt everything. Tell her she can have two biscuits before she has any, rather than saying yes you can have one, yes you can have another one, then (suddenly, to her) no you can't have any more. Tell her before you go into the shop "We're getting milk today but no sweeties" Tell her what's happening "After we've eaten breakfast, we're going to get dressed and go to the park." and remember to use milestones she can understand "You can have three more turns on the slide/choose one more thing to play on at the park before we go home" (rather than we're leaving in 5 minutes)

Don't turn things into a battle unnecessarily. If you get her a green bowl and she throws herself onto the floor because she wanted the blue one, don't think "Well, I can't back down now" - it won't take a second to swap back to the blue one. You can tell her once she's calm "Please just ask me nicely next time, being shouted at makes me feel cross."

My DS is 2 next week. Fortunately his language skills are very good so I have no doubt he understands me and can make his wishes known. Until they can do this I think you have to just pre-empt, distract and then if they do something naughty, ignore them. My DS hates it when I ignore his presence.

I started doing 1,2,3 about 3 months ago and it's a fab technique for a very spirited boy, but is only recommended from age 2 (see this for good, well-researched explanation).

For now, I'm afraid you just have to battle on through it and remind yourself of the old mumsnet adage of "this too shall pass".
Good luck

My DS is 22 months and I can sympathise.

We went through the biting stage a few months ago, and I would do a firm "NO - we do NOT bite. Biting hurts and you have hurt mummy" and then I would walk away. He hasn't bitten for quite a few months now but I use the same phrase for hitting etc (which so far he hasn't really done). I'm fairly easy going normally so I think the kind of change of pace affects him.

WIth throwing food I take the food away and say "it looks like you've finished your dinner. You can get down as soon as I've cleared up what you threw on the floor" and he has to stay in his chair while I pick up the bits from the floor (for 2 reasons - 1 to show that actions have consequences and secondly so he doesn't walk through it!). He's got a lot better recently and I do praise him when he has a meal and hardly any is on the floor.

Touching the oven -I told him it was hot, he touched it. It was hot. He didn't touch it again. (It wasn't so hot it could burn but I think it did hurt a bit).

I do let him rummage through the fridge, keeping eggs and stuff a bit higher up. This seems to have stopped it being all that exciting for him.

My latest battle though is running away! Grrr. Drives me barking as I hate grabbing at him. If anyone has strategies for this it would be wonderful.

I agree that distraction/prevention is the easiest way to deal with things. 21 months is practically still a baby, they won't understand a naughty step.

At this age their brain is still developing so it will take them a long time (and many repetitions from you) to learn that they shouldn't do something. Also their impulse control isn't great so they are not being naughty; they just struggle to remember, understand and follow instructions. So when parents think that simply telling a child not to hit, bite, throw etc doesn't work- it does, but you have to say it a lot before it sinks in!

This phase passes quickly! It's a tough one. People go on about the terrible twos but with DD1 I definitely found 12-23 months the toughest part.

Yes definitely lots of repitition/reminders are necessary. Try not to expect too much ie "You've been told this before...!" because they really don't have the capacity to remember, especially if something is boring to them (ie, they might well remember that ice cream chimes mean an ice cream van, but forget that they're not supposed to climb the bookcase!)

"Don't hold a child by the arm, it can really hurt them" thanks for pointing this out, i didnt know this but jt seems obvious now. I'm going to have to find a new way of removing ds from dangerous/naughty situations. I have many a time been seen with ds dangling by one arm in the street while I try to avoid him throwing himself on floor so hard he gives himself concussion! Grabbing his torso doesn't work because he throws his arms up and slips right out of your grasp, plus I have to take into consideration the distance between his head and your nose for the inevitable flinging back of the head.

It's hard Magneto :) I've definitely ended up dangling DS with one arm across a road before because he was holding hands and decided he wanted to sit down halfway through crossing, and my other hand was pushing the buggy!

Thanks for all the ideas.
bertie a lot of those ideas sound good although I think some of it might be too wordy for him yet. Also his biting isn't usually because he's cross, he just does it like it's a habit. I like the idea of helping him find safe ways to express himself when he's cross though.

funnys that used to work for him but just totally stopped working a few months ago - he can also climb out of the travel cot now (which is where I used to put him) so we've put it away.

Magneto if I need to grab him I often try and do it by the shoulder of his clothing - but ultimately a hurt arm is better than a child under a bus!

Ozzie, I sort of do that with throwing food, but if he does before he's eaten much/anything, I'm reluctant to put him to bed hungry

Can anyone recommend any good fridge locks?

Do let him go to bed hungry. Sometimes at this age their appetite just drops massively. My DD at 18 months would eat what her big brother left as well as her lunch, at 2 she started eating not enough to keep a sparrow alive. If he is hungry he won't be able to sleep so give him the rest of his lunch, a banana or something boring.

marzipan can you put him in his cot? What do you mean by stopped working? If DS2 is naughty he goes into his cot or playpen and shrieks, but he does remember the next time and so it becomes a deterrent

I dont think you can!!!!! I have 2 rowdy DS, now DS1 is 4 we can handle and adress, and he listens (ish)

but Ds2? meh, be patient and this shall pass

But on biting, ooof I'd get pretty nuclear as there is adifference between being high spririted and violent

Watching this thread with interest.

At the moment I do the firm and calm and persistent thing (with occasional screaming into a pillow out of sight)

"out of the fridge" remove and shut door (repeat ad nauseum..)
"no biting" remove and put on step for a minute or until they get up. I ask my 23mo if he is ready to play nicely and he is learning to say "sorry".

lots of "gently" "no" "leave it" etc etc..

Its exhausting and relentless but its only for a few more months (hopefully).

Just keep repeating like a broken record and keep removing them.

Drink in the evening to reward yourself!

marzipananimal

the Ikea stick-on cupboard locks also work fine for fridges.

recommend that you let him touch the outside of the oven so he can see for himself that it really is hot, and what 'hot' means. (obviously you make certain it's not hot enough to burn him).

re biting - I don't know - you could say "ow, that really hurt mummy" and burst into tears? might be cathartic for you at least!

Funny, putting him in the travel cot worked at first in that the behaviour would stop and not be repeated for a while. It stopped working in that he would carry on biting or whatever no matter how many times he was put in there. He can climb out of his cot unless he's in his grobag, and it would be a bit off a faff to put him in it for a time out. Might try it when desperate though!
He does understand hot, but likes to turn the knobs on the cooker which don't get hot

I have no idea how 'good' this tip is, but whenever Dd has bitten, I say, 'We don't bite people, it hurts. If you need to bite, bite teddy'.

And she does. Poor old ted.

CogitoErgoSometimes

You're right. I bit back to show that it hurts and can confirm that it works.

I just say 'NO' firmly and really seriously, they cry a bit, and then they realise I am top dog, their position in the pack is lower, and they have to behave. This works very well with regard to biting, even nipples when they are bf. Throwing food - well I would take all their food away, they might cry a bit, but then I would say 'You have to eat nicely' very firmly before giving it back to them. Touching the oven, I would say "NO!! HOT!!!" in a very urgent voice, removing them immediately. Opening the fridge freezer, I would get a special child lock as they don't get that for a long time.

Most of it works with tone of voice as long as you keep the sentences short.

For runners away, the little backpacks with built in reins work brilliantly.

Yes probably a bit too wordy for a 21 month old Sorry. DS is 3.8 now and it's hard to remember what he could understand when.

Still, explaining what's going to happen is important even before you think they understand. Keep it as simple as possible, and you can still work some of the other stuff in - it's the principles rather than the execution. There were some really long UP chat/support threads in Parenting which you might find if you search, or start a new one :)

sit on him

what worked with my ds for 'roughness' bizarely ( well i thought so but was desperate) found this book in the library and we read it a lot ds wasn't verbal then much but definately understood lots of words... the character is cute but a bit rough.... we then had a catch phrase where if he was heading for
I woudl just say gently bentley and it would make him pause.... (eventually)

www.amazon.co.uk/Gently-Bentley-Ian-Whybrow/dp/0340875623

we also did a naughty step type thing which was the bottom step but i would stand not too far so he wasnt alone but was away from toys etc more of a calm down thing...in the same room didn't work for us...

there was also too much shouting from me read UP which helped with lots of ideas and I really respected but also made me feel guilty...

with time I think my expectations were way too high..... hes still really little so would suggest not worrying too much about everything and maybe focus on the safety eg oven - and biting.....just take the food away if he's throwing it.. remember the mantra its only a phase..

Saying "I am in charge" in your head can be a really good strategy as well, when they are trying to be stroppy.

On touching hot things, if it's hot but not enough to burn, I normally just tell DD it's hot in a normal voice and let her choose whether to touch it. They learn quickly that when you say it's hot, it's hot. If it's hot enough to burn I tell her it's very hot in an urgent voice, and that it will be very painful.

On biting, we tell her not to bite and we cry when she does, she is allowed to bite our clothing, so "clothing is OK" if she goes there after trying to bite. She also gets a poke in the cheek if she bites during BF. Not often, and normally when she's half asleep or tired.

DH hammed up being very angry when DD deliberately threw food (she looked at him, and dropped the food as if asking what are you going to do about it, making a big mess on the floor) on the floor once and she never did it again.

We differentiate between things that are what we generally prefer (in which case if she does it she gets a softer instruction) and things which are dangerous (which is stronger / harsher). In general we tend to veer on the permissive side and leave no's to things we feel strongly about.

Hope that helps!