'SAHMS' that have full time childcare or help - a fantastic liberation or downright lazy?

[Enid]

There are lots of mothers down here in Dorset who are (or whose husbands are) well off enough to afford NOT to work. I know a few and they all have full time aupairs or nannies. One of them has TWO nannies - one for each of her children.

It seems to be a matter of pride that you always take the nanny/au pair on holiday to help with your children. Also that the nanny/au pair takes the children to clubs and activities.

OK - I think it is outrageously lazy (and so does dh). What do you think?

Greensleeves- twins are a special case (I don't have twins btw) pre the age of 3 ish because they both need a high level of hands on supervision at the same time. Watching friends trying to round up 3 year old twins running off in different directions an extra pair of hands is the difference between safe or not.

Have you ever tried hand feeding a 7 year old (who can run off) and a 13 month old at the same time? DS2 (4) can fend for himself, but ds1 and ds3 both need me at the same time to do something physical (ie put food in their mouths). I don't have enough hands, literally - if ds1 is in the front room and ds3 is in the kitchen no chance. Having just done lunch I can say that tea time will be heck of a lot easier because my mum will be in so she can chase ds1 around and make him eat whilst I can get ds3 to eat.

I can't understand why anyone would not get an extra pair of hands under those sorts of circumstances- i can't see why your reasons are for doing it all yourself in the sorts of situation we have. When I am at home with all 3 I can't sit an play play doh with any of my children because I have to continually check that ds1 is safe- - so far today I've removed a bottle of cleaning fluid from him, removed him from climbing on the swivel chair, got him down from climbing on the kitchen worktops leaning against the window, and stopped him eating washing powder. And you still think its wring to get an extra pair of hands in? Think you inhabit a parallel universe to be honest where you have the ability to be in 3 places at once. And I had help in this morning. (and also 2 people in to meet ds1 who are going to be working with him, so he was entertained for an hour or so by having more people around).

And before the obvious is asked- I'm oin the computer now because ds1 likes to watch it switch on and switch off and it gives us 5 minutes of non trashing safe peace.

If I had someone in today to help out with us, I would get them to take ds2 and ds3 to the parkor play with them here, whilst I went out with ds1. He's be much happier, ds2 would be happy (loves the park can't go if we have ds1) and ds3 wouldn't be in the playpen for vast hours of the day.

Persdonally I think in my situation its cruel to the kids not to get help in, - especially ds2 and ds3, who without that help will grow up never doing anything because Mummy ewas always too busy with their elder brother.

Mothers of young twins have much the same supervison issues as I have- for a shorter time, and they probably get sensible before they're tall enough to be really dangerous, but for a few years its similar.

I did say that I believe my way of parenting is "right" for my children. Not your children. And I don't dislike or disapprove of mothers who go to work; I didn't say I did.

I really should get off this thread since I have said everything I want to say, but just have to add that I didn't find Greensleeves' post offensive or scornful in the least, though I don't agree with her. But I haven't seen anyone sneering at SAHM's either.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree then greensleeves. I don't see chores and drudgery as a vital part of being a parent, I just don't. My children see that dh and I have to do chores (we both do about the same, dh does more if I'm not here) but I honestly don't think it makes them feel loved. I thinks lots of things make them feel loved but watching me get pissed off as I hang out yet another load of washing is highly unlikely to be one of them!

I work fulltime and I still tidy up after my children and load the diswasher. Eating cream cakes on the sofa 8 hours a day still gives you time to load the diswasher or whatever else you might fancy. Having help in some form doesn't mean you don't do anything at all yourself. There are 24 hours in a day. Plenty of time to do both IMO.

even if seeing parents do chores and clean up after them, surely this isn't necessary 24/7 -- seeing the parents looking after them for a couple of days at the weekend should give them the idea?

I very rarely take my kids on the Tesco shop - but they know all about it from school holiday trips...those infrequent occasions are enough

that first bit should have read even if seeing parents do chores and clean up after them is good for kids,...etc

I'm happy to agree to disagree, since I only ever stated my opinions as being just that in the first place. When I say I believe my way of doing things is "right" for my children, I only mean it to the same degree as anyone who has made decisions for their children and is sticking by them. It doesn't mean that I am totally arrogant and believe my views are cast in stone, or that I have never messed anything up or wondered whether I am doing the right thing. Guilt and uncertainty are not the sole province of the WOHM. Far from it. I

was labouring under the misapprehension that this was a discussion forum and different opinions were welcome. My mistake.

The problem I find with this thread is that there is such a strong undercurrent of competitiveness running through it!

Almost an I'm the best mummy competition. Or I'm the least lazy.

Well, all good and well, but I am pretty sure there are no medal ceremonies at the end of it all!

We all want the best for our children, what we believe that is is clearly different. What is unseemly is the way in which the more I sacrifice to bring up my children the more worthy my role as a parent is. I just don't buy it! I think many of you are making a fundumental management mistake. You are measuring the inputs not the outputs Putting more in does not always equate to more out the other end!

I think my children benefit from all sorts of influences in their lives and my DH and I are just a part of that, a big part but not the whole.

If you want to do the whole stay at home and do everything yourself for the child at least be honest why you are doing it, i.e. I'm doing it because I love it (Lockets), I'm doing it because I can't afford any choice in teh matter, I'm doing it because I need to do it to feel that my children love and value me, but please don't ascribe preferences to your children that they are not old enough to understand the full implications of!

I hope KS is not around today, my grammar and sentence structure was appalling in that post

I'm not a WOHM (study on Mondays outside the home but otherwise SAHM). I don't really mind what you do with your children I'm disagreeing with this: "What you describe could be the experience of any mother with more than one young child, GBIYJJ, not just twins. Yes, it is bloody hard work, and draining, and demanding. But my reasons still stand for not getting somebody else to do it."

I think it is different with twins when they are young (don't have them myself but observed them). We have different reasons for requiring help (severely autistic 6 year old + 2 pre-schoolers) but there are situations where you cannot all sit down nicely playing play doh, or pop in and out doing the chores whilst your children play neatly by your side, or even have a situation where its possible to insist that your 6 year old sits at the table and eats unless you can give 100% attention. Which means that no-one else gets it.

I'm saying there are circumstances (such as that described above) that you are actually being unfair to your children if you don't get help in- especially when - given enough hassle and bit of luck- you get get someone else (social services) to pay for it,

Soapbox - I agree with you. It's the reason I haven't posted on it although I keep coming back to look at it in a voyeuristic fashion).

Exactly soapbox- and what I was tyring to say in my last sentence. Me running around all day rescuing ds1 from near death is a lot of effort for me, and far from ideal for the other 2. Getting someone in to work with him, or look after the other 2 whilst I take him out is easier on me and better for the children. I'm sure there are many people who for different reasons find themselves with the same scenario.

lol re inputs and outputs, good post soapbox!

i dont get it - so the more you put in the more get out isnt correct?

It isn't necessarily so

soapbox, eloquent as always - very good post. Said what I have been trying to say, only so much better!

damn!

and i thought it would all be easy in the end

oh well!

Don't agree with soapbox's "inputs vs outputs" post at all. I think my children do get something extra out of knowing that I do all the physical/domestic and emotional work for them, (as well as caring for them emotionally and spending time "enjoying" them), because I love them. I do accept that other people see it differently, and that not all children are the same. But I think it's wrong that my observations about my children's feelings - that they appreciate and understand what I do, and feel more secure for it - should be dismissed as factually incorrect. It may not be the case for your children, but I believe it is for mine.

cool

is it competitive?

do I win then?

So what would you do in a situation like mine Greensleeves? Just interested.

no i win

Nah Enif- you've got a foot in too many camps, WOHM, SAHM, hands on family help, someone paid(? I think?) Actually I think you are living the life I want to!

I really don't know GBIYJJ. I would play it by ear and make decisions as they presented themselves, I think. I'm certainly not explicitly condemning your choice to have help with your children. I know my mother cared for six childre, one of whom was severely autistic and another of whom has cerebral palsy, without help. But I have to say it wasn't the nicest childhood I could imagine, and there wasn't much time for each child. Although it's complicated by the fact that she was an evil mad witch. I only have two, and haven't had to face that problem. I think the spirit of the original question referred more to SAHMs who employ help so that they can enjoy time to themselves, or avoid doing domestic labour which they find dull. Whatever Bugsy may think, I have tried not to be negative or critical about other people's choices when it comes to working or using childcare in situations where they really need it. I just haven't made those choices myself - I've made different ones, which are right for my family. And if I were not lucky enough to be able to stay at home, of course I would work, and use childcare, although for myself I wouldn't behappy about it and would wish I could be at home with them.

But greensleeves that is exactly the point - it is factually incorrect because there are no facts!

How can you measure it.

Have they had experience of anything else?

Can you compare their stability now with their stability and security in a different setting?

It isn't fact based. It is judgement based.

You wish to believe it - but it certainly does not make it true, even for your children!