Anti-Smackers Wanted

[Xenia]

As a long term lobbyist against smacking children, spanking, slapping, etc etc whether a "little tap" or anything, I know there are lots of anti-smackers on Mumsnet too.

If you do share that view then respond to this consultation
www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/about-us/consultations/definition-domestic-violence/dv-definition-consultation?view=Binary

on that issue - where it talks about violence against those under 18 there is no reason at all why the bill (which in some aspects I do not accept which is why I happened to be looking at it) should not be a great vehicle to get all smacking banned, not just smacking which leaves a mark which is the current ridiculous English law and is a typical British fudge.

You can respond direct to the consultation and/or ask your MP to take a particular stance on it.

On the other proposals in the consultation I would be against legal changes as there is too much scope for abuse of the proposed new law.

Oh, and I was smacked as a child and I still resent it. It's not right to hit (and it is hitting, it hurts) someone just because you are bigger than them and have more power over them.

Nativity - I know, tbh I was more wary of admitting that than the smack

im joking btw, Id never give DS a fruit shoot.....

I have smacked DS about a dozen times. Twice I would say were acceptable - both involved running on the road type incidents - and the other times I would say were unacceptable, i.e. I smacked because I lost my temper (although in ALL cases the smack was just that - a smack). I wasn't happy with the way I was handling his behaviour, so I took a long hard look at myself and sought help and alternative ways to discipline. He hasn't been smacked for over a year now because I'm better able to respond to his more challenging behaviour.

Does anyone seriously think I would not have smacked him because of fear of prosecution, or that the fear of prosecution would have helped me parent better? We should be supporting parents, not putting the fear of SS into them.

MollyTheMole:

As I said in my post above I never smacked my kids but your example is one where I would have felt justified. I agree with you absolutely.

That is certainly a key issue. Plenty of people are willing to go down the "you can't do this" "that is wrong" line but what actual support can parents easily access when they need help with the most effective way to discipline children?

I know all that will happen is a lot of loved children will end up either being removed or parents with criminal records

Sirzy Exactly. My parents were fairly liberal with the physical chastisement, culminating in my SD beating me black and blue when I was 13. I KNEW I didn't want to be that sort of parent (that's why I sought help) but I didn't know what sort of other parent I could be. It can be very difficult to access support for this kind of issue, I certainly didn't go through HV or anything like that, in fact I barely saw a HV when DS was young and haven't seen one since he was 3. Resources in my area are rightly targetted towards parents who have significant problems - but that doesn't mean those of us who are a bit more articulate don't struggle.

I don't know why the UK is still so far behind all the other countries that have a blanket ban; twenty in all. Sweden was the first in 1978 and I think there has only ever been one prosecution so I doubt there will be a mass intrusion into the lives of parents by the police and SS. I don't think there is likely to be any increase in unruly behaviour either as it hasn't happened elsewhere.
A ban will help increase public awareness and change attitudes more than anything else and that can only be a good thing. I don't see why little children are the last section of society who can be hit legally. That seems both inhumane and illogical.

Somebloke - and yet some would have me given a record or DS taken away. People should busy themselves with real abuse issues and leave the majority of good, decent parents to raise their own kids.

Tyr no in sweden their are parents who smack till all that happens they end up in jail no doubt.

Why do you presume to know how to raise other people children

I think people who allow child to play 18 rated games are doing more harm than someone who taps their Childs hand

nameschangedtoprotectelves we are not talking about child abuse what happened to you was not a smack

Isn't it about time someone turns up and tells Xenia she didn't even raise her children so what would she know etc etc

TattyDevine not sure what you mean ?????

Who raised her children

As I understand it, in Sweden children have not been 'taken away'; a few parents, however, have been prosecuted. Invoking this 'social services will take your babies away' bogeyman is neither accurate nor productive.

At the moment, there is a legal loophole which permits adults to hit children if they are those children's parents. It is archaic (I repeat: there is no definition of 'reasonable chastisement' - I looked bloody hard for one when I wrote a feature on smacking some years ago!) and many of us feel that this anomaly should be removed.

motherinferior seems the law, government, courts or some parents don't agree with you.

and in your words some parents have been prosecuted what of those parents which dose more harm the tap or the act of a child seeing their parents taken in handcuffs then interviewed for hours by ss or police then your parent being placed in jail ?

Er...no, I'm not stupid, I do realise a number of people are insisting that they should have the legal right to hit children if they are those children's parents. I am just pointing out that as it stands, this is a particular anomaly in the law.

I said prosecuted not 'interviewed for hours and then placed in jail'. I am not, however, familiar with Swedish child protection practices.

motherinferior if these parents were prosecuted it stands that both the child and the parents would be interviewed unless the sweeds are into trail with out establishing the facts I can just see it now parent taken off by th police led away from the house while ss interview the child and fishing for some deeper family scandal, mean wile parent loosing their job due to being down as assaulting a minor

And long term effects parent afraid to discipline that child as this often happens in schools after a allegation teacher often gives up in correcting child fearing the worst

Their are parents who rape and murder their children this is what people should be worried about children who don't come from loving homes children who are half starved

But this is what your attention is on with in all the things to campaign for this is what your focused on

Dear lord

Well, I admire your vivid imagination for this scenario...

The thing is, for some of us it is also a moral absolute. That hitting people is wrong. And should be against the law, because it is wrong. Whether or not the person you hit is your child. In the same way that rape in marriage - which used to be legal until very recently - is wrong, whether or not the rapist is married to the woman he rapes. You disagree. We aren't going to find common ground here.

And do stop trying to seize the moral high ground by implying that anti-smackers are somehow diverting their energies from opposing wider child abuse.

maypole1 Wed 14-Dec-11 18:20:49

Their are parents who rape and murder their children this is what people should be worried about children who don't come from loving homes children who are half starved

But this is what your attention is on with in all the things to campaign for this is what your focused on

Dear lord

Aren't you missing a point? We already have laws to deal with rape and murder so we don't need to campaign for them.
Are you saying that an assault on a child should be ignored because a worse injustice is happening elsewhere?
That doesn't make sense.

Really you think the threshold for removing a child is adequate.

Then you know nothing in the uk as it stands the threshold for removing a child is so low even know drug addicts are able to keep hold of their children.

On average it takes a child 2 years to be adopted their is over 10 thousand foster carer shortage
On average social workers have 8-12 case loads when their only supposed to have 5-7.
Children who are disabled often are left in neglectful environment because their are no placement

With in cp their is much more bigger fish to fry than someone tapping their Childs hand

But if you think the system is fixed then ok hmmm

Only the other day a baby was rapped by its parents they will serve very little if any jail time and most likely mum will be told to leave the bf and gain back custody of the child

Maypole,

What on earth are you talking about?