Anti-Smackers Wanted

[Xenia]

As a long term lobbyist against smacking children, spanking, slapping, etc etc whether a "little tap" or anything, I know there are lots of anti-smackers on Mumsnet too.

If you do share that view then respond to this consultation
www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/about-us/consultations/definition-domestic-violence/dv-definition-consultation?view=Binary

on that issue - where it talks about violence against those under 18 there is no reason at all why the bill (which in some aspects I do not accept which is why I happened to be looking at it) should not be a great vehicle to get all smacking banned, not just smacking which leaves a mark which is the current ridiculous English law and is a typical British fudge.

You can respond direct to the consultation and/or ask your MP to take a particular stance on it.

On the other proposals in the consultation I would be against legal changes as there is too much scope for abuse of the proposed new law.

Kladdkaka, I think you are right in a way: there was not a great deal of public support for a law; lots of people were against legalising- but not necessarily pro-smacking.

My impression from my own 60s childhood and from other people of my generation I have talked to is that large parts of the population were already moving away from the concept of smacking as a desirable part of parenting. Very few children in my working-class/lower middle class neighbourhood were still being smacked and if they were it was something other children would talk about as noteworthy (his mum smacks him). Ime it was already seen as an outdated form of discipline. And that was many years before the ban.

Cory, I see what you mean. It's one of the things I most admire about Sweden. I think it's shameful that Britain is being dragged into this kicking and screaming all the way.

Burning them alive is worse than smacking them too but that doesn't make the smacking right.

If we change the law then the culture will follow.

You are not allowed to cause actual bodily harm. If it doesn't cause that you're okay. If there is no mark left it may not cause actual bodily harm. If you hit so lightly there is no mark goodness knows why you are doing it at all. It also means that skin colour has an effect too. We are very very white and freckly. Anything marks me instantly. That is not so for all skin tones.

Children Act 2004 58 Reasonable punishment says that as long as there is no actual bodily harm the parent is not breaking the law.

There is huge pressure from different organisations in the UK to change the law relating to reasonable punishment.

Organisations such as the NSPCC and 11 Million campaign for a complete ban on reasonable punishment.

Professor Sir Al Aynsley-Green, Children?s Commissioner for England is concerned that section 58 of the Children Act
2004 continues to breach the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child by failing to provide children with
equal protection under the law on common assault.

" The Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health is against smacking[77] and opposes the striking of children in all circumstances.[58] The Royal College of Psychiatrists also takes the position that corporal punishment is unacceptable in all circumstances.[78]" Wikipedia

The pro smackers mgiht want to have al oko at this to check what they do comes within the law and may be they might like to describe their techniques in exact detail as to how they deal with the child so we can assess if they comply with the law or not.

www.bab.org.uk/downloads/Smacking_Leaflet.pdf

I wouldn't smack a trainee at work in order to teach them something, or prevent them doing something wrong, and if I did I would expect to be had up for it.

A tap to the back of the hand in some situations may be what parents deem needed to provide a "short sharp shock".

I doubt anyone would condone going out to hurt the child but that isn't necesseily the aim of smacking.

You don't agree with it which is fine, but do you have the right to question other people's parenting techniques that aren't done to harm the child or cause lasting damage?

Violence is wrong.

Of all kinds.

Always.

I smacked my DS when he broke free of my hand and ran into the road.

I wanted to make sure he didnt do it again and I knew trying to explain to a my 2 yo that he could get run over just wasnt going to cut it.

He hasnt done it since.

Why does Xenia not have the right to question other people's parenting techniques?

If the short sharp shock was administered to an adult, say an erring employee, then nobody would question her right to question it, even if it took place in a different workplace. Though it might well be a useful technique to make that employee remember to report the the photocopier fault instead of just walking away. Might make all the difference. And it is difficult to get people to behave around photocopiers. Still, most of us would think we had a right to have an opinion on how other people's employees are treated, because we have an idea of what kind of society we want to live in.

I've never even threatened to smack my children. I couldn't smack to discipline as a teacher so why should I be able to as a parent.

When I tell my child off (stern voice, bit louder than usual) it gets the message across. I don't need to hurt her to get the message across.

I have taught her that we don't hit. There aren't exceptions to this rule, including a smack from her parents.

Both my parents smacked me when naughty. To this day I feel it has left a negative impact on our relationship.

I will never understand why people think it's ok to hit someone smaller, younger and weaker. I thought we called that "bullying?"

Yep, and then we try to teach them violence is a bad thing. Erm, righto.

I'll happily describe my 'technique'

• DS runs into ther road despite me telling him a couple of times before its dangerous and he isnt to do it or he could get very hurt and make mummy sad (the fluffy fluffy approach)
• I raise my hand
• Hand connects to DS's leg
• DS isnt happy for about 15 mins
• We both forget about it and have a Greggs sausage roll and fruit shoot
• DS doesnt do it again therefore he is alive and not 6 foot under due to being crushed by a car
• DS now tells me when a car is coming down the road and that we have to stop before we cross

i'll also add that i tried the 'stern voice' approach that didnt work either

Xenia no thakns op said she dose nt want a debate hmm

My view is alway out of all those who were snaked as a child I am not talking about a beating here I said smacked but are anti smacking themselves

How many of you would of liked to have been placed in care or had your parents arrested because bit or swore at your parents

My cousin had her mum arrested in the summer she was caught trying join the looters her mum slapped her and restrained her from leaving the house my cousin then called the police and told them her mum attacked after her mum was taken to the police satiation she then was free to join the looters

Her mum was cautioned because and it was aagainst a minor she lost her job after that the family went into melt down step sister had to move in with her gran her mum due to the job loss they are no in the process of losing her house

Even though after my ss tried to retract what she had said finally told the truth that she had only been slapped which didn't even hurt and that she had been trying to loot no less it was to late

Now if smacking a child was illegal who knows this could of ened up even worse
Children no their rights but don't seem to no the resposbilites

This law would have different implications for small children than it would for older children

They already run the roost at school I would nt also like to loose my authority like I said I am not a smacker but I may need to to stop my child from harming others or himself one day and i would like to think I wouldn't go to jail for it

fruit shoot

NinkyNonker why do you seek to tell others what is good for their child we are not seeking to tell you how to raise yours

I am always very curious why others think they no better for other people kids if you don't smack your children whats the issue

Molly don't you know that Greggs sausage rolls and fruit shoots are abusive and should be banned?!

sadly, maypole, people who are treated violently often grow up to treat others the way they have learnt. That's why it is everybody's problem.

The thing is, you pro-smackers, that the only protection you have in the law is the archaic (it has never been properly defined) term 'reasonable chastisement' which allegedly differentiates your behaviour from common assault.

Xenia, we don't agree all the time but this time I'm firmly with you

Other people dont know better, they just think they do. As I say my DS could now just exist in my memories if he'd ran into a road again (he was at a stage where me being cross or upset was amusing to him) If me smacking him the once has stopped him being killed then no-one has the right to tell me I did the wrong thing.

nerfmum I think that was tongue-in-cheek!