Controlled Crying Help!!! HV advise for us...

[Scruffyhound]

Our little boy is 6 months old. He has had refulx and this is sorted now as far as we know he eats better and is more content and is not sick. We let him sleep with us it happend one night and he got used to it. We felt sorry for him thinking maybe the refulx was a problem. I was worried about cot death and all sorts so have not slept properly for a long time now neither has my partner. We have moved house about 2 1/2 months ago and its getting us down now. I spoke to the HV in the new area and they are so supportive. She told me to try the CC. Put him in his cot after a bath massage and milk (well 10 mins for milk to go down) then in the cot kiss say goodnight. After that point go in every 10 mins and dont talk and massage above his eyebrows and earlobes to relax him. We have been at it for an hour now he has screamed and cried. He sounds like he is settling down now? (hope so!) its the first night doing this. Also in the night he wants his dummy putting in if he wakes how do you stop that? I had no problems with my first son who is now 6 yrs old and im new to this. Does anyone have any advise if they have done it? I dont want any negative feedback really and dont wish to be told Im crap as I feel low and just want some advise off people whom have done it.

well, personally i wouldn't do controlled crying and i feel very strongly that health visitors shouldn't suggest it

he's a little baby still, ever since he was born (well even before then) you have been close to him, cuddling him, making him feel secure... then one night bam. nothing. he cries, nothing.

10 minutes is a really, really, really long time for a little baby and he doesn't know you're coming back each time.

so if it were me? i'd go and give him a great big cuddle and let him fall asleep.
with ds2 and ds3 I took the side off the cot and pushed it up to my bed so we could co-sleep but all have our own space. it worked really well

I have used controlled crying a little when DD1 was 9 months, i found it hard and it did work but i dont think its the best way to do it , also, I do think 6 months is very young and 10 mins is wayyyyyyyyyy too long. I would try 1 minute of crying, you don't want your baby to get hysterical which is what will happen if you leave them that long. Do what feels right for you but if your posting it must not feel right.

Hello thisisyesterday I appreciate your opinion but have been advised by to baby health visitors and a baby health center advisor that we should try it. It is not the best thing to do. I had post natal depression with my first son and had none of this he was fine. My baby boy now is a little bundle of cuteness but I need to get some rest and so does my partner and as for your advise I can try the cot thing and now my baby is settled after an hour I will try this if this CC does not work. Why would HV say to do it if it harms the baby? I can remember my mum leaving me in my room if I was over tired and I said I was not and crying and catching my breath because I was so upset. But I then went to sleep woke up thinking what the hell was that about I feel better now. I know I was older but I felt better after a sleep. and so did my mum!! :) And sorry its every 5 mins not 10 worte that wrong!! Were were clock watching......

Research now says that controlled crying induces fear into a child . We tried it once and never did it again it was awful . Research now also says that babies develop more secure attachments if they are soothed within five minutes . Do not make yourself Ill doing this . There are plenty of advantages to co sleeping , unfortunately they are not promoted enough . You did the best thing for your little one co sleeping while he suffered with reflux - the warmth and comfort of me was the only thing that soothed our babies whilst they suffered very badly with it .

my advice is to ignore the hv

I would like to hear off people who have done ok with this too so far its all negative and are any of you qualified to say this?! Im worried about my baby dying from cot death or in this case co sleeping death! No one can sleep for fear of something happening. Hes still in the bedroom with us and is fine in that respect. Why would two HV and a woman that runs a baby center advise this if its that bad I dont get it? I have strated to suffer with PND and dont need to be extra tired as well. This is having an impact on both my children surely its better to have a mummy who has slept and is not snappy and feeling low alll the time that WILL have a lasting effect on my kids..... I know.....

Actually yes I am a qualified health care professional

This must be difficult for you. If the controlled crying is difficult but you are certain you want your child sleeping alone have you considered staying by his bed, doing a bit of "pick up, put down" pick him up when he gets upset, sooth him till he's calm and put him back down.

However you do it it wont be an instant thing, you wont get much sleep tonight and maybe not for a few nights. Maybe not ever.

We did do the pick up put down with our son (he's 7) but our 7 month old girl still sleeps with us. Looking back I realise mostly I was wasting my time fighting him and that he would have got there in his own time but thats a personal opinion only, though I'm much less shattered this time round.

Your HV may have made this suggestion but she's not the one standing by his bedside. There is no one true way to raise kids, CC is her opinion, if you are comfortable with it then that's fine.

Oh bugger, reading that back its a bit doom and gloom.

What I meant was it may take a while and you may have to try a few different methods. Not that you would never have a peaceful night again. Sorry.

hello sillyoldelf are you qulified with babies andf young children? I have answered questions on here from a microbiology point of view as I have 15 yrs knolwage and have done quite a bit. But I dont know everything and dont know whats best for everyone..... I can advise for somethings. Surely its down the the individual and the situation?

shuckleberryfinn thanks for you honest opinion. I did wonder will he ever grow out of wanting to sleep with us? I had visions of an 18yr old still co sharing our bed!!! :)

Scruuffyhound, please try and see both sides of the advice you have been given. I appreciate that you are tired and need to sleep. I was in your position, DD was a terrible sleeper at this age.

However, just because your baby may eventually go to sleep independantly, he may not stay asleep if he has gone off to sleep upset. I am not an expert, just trying to help.

I second what others have said, six months is very young to be left to cry for 10 minutes. Why don't you try other methods, such as pick up put down. Baby learn to go to sleep in his cot, and have the reassurance that you have not left him to cry.

With pick up put down, you put baby in his cot, awake. When he starts to cry, pick him up to soothe him, then put him down again. This will take many times of this, but after a few nights your DS will know what is happening and have the confidence to settle.

Hope this helps

scruffy.. do you think that health visitors are trained in child/baby psychology and sleep issues?

they are not.

some will say do controlled crying. some will say co-sleep. they're giving their personal opinion, not a medical one.

there is a reason why you have only had negative responses.

i don't think you will get very many, if any, people on here saying that controlled crying is a good thing to do with a 6 month old baby who is used to sleeping with you

X posted with shuckleberryfinn!

Health Visitors sometimes have outdated ideas... they are basically allowed to say what they like. Controlled crying has been shown to have harmful effects, but it's not illegal. Most proponents of controlled crying advise not to use it before 12 months, because before this babies don't actually understand that you are coming back. Lots of HVs also seem to have a very rigid one size fits all approach to parents' queries and don't always take other factors into account. This is often because they are pushed for time, which is a shame. They should have time to go through various options with parents so that they can work out which is best for their family - because one person's opinion is not necessarily going to be that best thing.

I think that asking for advice on mumsnet is a very good move because you will get many approaches - and yes, controlled crying might be one approach, and it might be the one you choose, but I think you deserve to know all the facts and all the options before going ahead with it. I do NOT think you're "crap" or have done anything wrong, you're clearly a lovely mum who wants to do the very best for her DS. I just feel you've been let down with bad advice in this instance, that's not your fault.

This is an article which cites research about possible harmful effects of CC

In your situation I don't think that controlled crying is a good move, TBH. Your DS has been sleeping in with you for six months and suddenly he is expected to settle in a cot (unfamiliar) in his own room (unfamiliar) and massaging his eyebrows and earlobes (This just sounds really strange!! Unless it's a comfort thing you've always done for him?)

If I were you I would just at least try to ease into this more slowly. Start with the cot in your room and see if you can settle him in here, if you want to stop co-sleeping. I'd probably cuddle him to sleep for now and put him in the cot when he's asleep. Then try to settle in the cot if he wakes by stroking him and making low, soft noises like "shhhh" or humming a familiar tune. If he really won't settle then bring him into bed - you can try to extend the time he spends in his cot over a while. Does he still have milk in the night? If he is then it's important to keep letting him have it while he is so small.

Good luck. I hope you find something which works for you and you get some more sleep soon! :)

am i missin somethin or if you lie down with him wont he sleep and you can all have a rest?

At the end of the day do what you feel most comfortable with . The guidelines for cot death are aimed at those who take drugs and drink heavily . Babies sleep safer when near their parents because they enter a lighter phase of sleep - when babies enter a deep sleep that is the greater risk of cot death . Never sleep on a sofa with a baby though . Sleeping with our children was the only way any of us got rest . I don't know if you know but all the weaning guidelines from WHO are aimed at third world countries . A lot of what HVs tell you is govt propaganda . Thankfully I had a no nonsense HV who would not dreamed of telling me to control cry . How do you know your child hasn't soiled it's nappy or developed a sore bottom since you left it ?

agree with bertie.

you aren't a crap mum at all, you've just been given some questionable advice. there are plenty of other gentler sleep training methods out there.

trust me, i know the horrors of sleep deprivation (ds2 was up feeding every 45-90 minutes day and night til he was nearly 10 months). it's an absolute killer

Oh gosh no he won't be sharing your bed when he is 18!! :) My son moved out of my bed perfectly happily without an issue when he was 2.5. My friend is about to move her son out at the age of 1. It's up to you how you want to do it, and if you've had enough of co sleeping then that's your choice and it's fair enough to want to stop, but switching from cosleeping straight to controlled crying (Sorry I misunderstood about him being in another room) is a BIG jump for him, and he's too little to understand that. Even when my son went into his own bed, I still cuddle him to sleep every night and if he wakes up (which is not very often) he is welcomed in my bed.

If you are worried about safety, look at these links:

UNICEF guidance for co-sleeping safely (This is an official body, these guidelines are informed by research)

A really comprehensive list by Elizabeth Pantley - Author of the book "The No Cry Sleep Solution" - she has worked with countless families, co-slept with all of her children as well and these guidelines are informed by research and also observations of real practice. It has some things the other list doesn't cover.

I really recommend the bedside cot approach too - this is what I did for DS and it was brilliant as it gave us all more room and I didn't have to worry about him rolling out. It also meant he was used to having his own space which I think helped when he moved into his own room.

Here's one who actually thinks it's a good idea! I did it when dd was 8 months old and I was at my wits end with her not sleeping! She would only sleep on me, wouldn't settle for anyone else and frankly me and her were both exhausted by it. I did cc and it worked after 3 days! I would however reduce the time you leave him to cry to 2-3 minutes! Keep going in, settle him and come back out. 2 minutes later do the same! Like I said it took dd 3 days. 1 hour the first day, 40 minutes the second, 15 minutes the third and by the fourth she'd cracked it! If you feel comfortable giving it a try then that's upto you! If after a few days it doesn't seem to be working try a different method. He will learn how to fall asleep and stay asleep. I hope it goes better for you tomorrow night and try not to feel guilty you are doing this for the sake of everyone!

well my 3 all fell to sleep on dummy/breast in my bed and still learned to sleep by themselves!