So honestly, how much time do you spend entertaining your 2-3 year old?

[Tortoiseinadarkspell]

I mean vs 'benign neglect'. Can one do benign neglect at that age, or does it just mean 'putting on cBeebies'?

Because my DD is almost three, and on my days home with her I spend pretty much all day actively entertaining her. I do do housework and errands and things as well, but the housework is a constant battle of 'just wait a second DD while I unload the dishwasher and then I'll come play' and actually on some days I end up unloading/reloading the dishwasher in several stages, breaking to help her do something or read her a book or whatever in between. Or I have to make up games that allow her to join in.

DH, by contrast, tends to be on his laptop when looking after her. Not all the time, that's unfair, he also takes her to the park or shopping or gets her involved in helping with some carpentry project, but if he's with her in the evening or gets up with her, he tends to let her just 'be around him', sort of thing. I think it's rude, but I can't ignore the fact that when she's with him, she's much, much more inclined towards independent play because she doesn't expect his undivided attention. So, I don't know.

I'm not complaining, it's just that when there's threads about it's good for children to be bored, etc., I wonder what age people mean. I do try and get DD to play on her own a bit, and to 'stretch' the intervals of independent play, but we're still talking a few minutes at a time. I've always believed that it's better to give young children time rather than stuff, and I'm strict about TV, but have I turned into a helicopter parent without noticing? By this age, should she be more willing to be ignored?

Yes it does sound like you have turned into a bit of a helicopter parent. Unles your DD is very high needs - and it doesn't sound like it as she can play independently when your DH is looking after her - she does not need you to be entertaining her all the day. If you can't even load the dishwasher without having to break it into stages, you are not doing yourself or your daughter any favours. I have friend who dleighted in being the Best Parent to her toddler daughter at this age - she literally did not stop singing, dancing and providing activities - and her daughter became very demanding, could not play by herself or with other children , expected every adult to do the same as her mum, and was very jealous and confused when her baby sister came along and she was no longer the centre of the universe.

You could try getting your DD to 'help' when you are cooking, loading the dishwasher etc..you need to introduce her to the idea that life continues and things need to be done.

I think you need to maybe encourage her to do some independent play as this will make your life a bit easier and also make her more independent and therefore confident.

Oh, I do get her to help with housework, and I expect her to behave in shops when I have to do errands that are boring for her, that sort of thing. Believe me, I do try to get her to do more independent play, it's just a battle and feels easier to give in and sit down with her and do more sticking. She does, increasingly, initiate the play herself, but she still wants me to join in always.

But what is normal at this age? Some of it's going to be temperament, I know, but do most parents of 2-3s find that it's a choice between entertaining the child and sticking the telly on, or am I really such an outlier?

I will be following this one with interest! I feel absolutely the opposite to you OP- DS (20 mo) is so independent he hardly ever seems to want me to play with him. He seems perfectly happy reading his books or destroying the garden on his own.

Sometimes I feel guilty, and make a real attempt to initiate play with him, but I don't really know what to do! He really seems to prefer playing on his own, apart from when we play chasing or tickling or hiding.

My 2 year old DD expects me to be all-singing all-dancing but to be fair I work ft so when I'm home she's my no. 1 priority and that's what she's come to expect. That said I can put a wash on, tidy the kitchen etc but I'm followed around by a little person going 'what's that mummy?" "Look at this mummy!" "mummy mummy mummy". When I'm with other toddlers and mums she will happily play away from me and if I provide her with pens and paper she will sit and draw for a (short) while.

I think it's a matter of expectations. DD's nanny won't allow her in the kitchen when she's preparing stuff (we have a tiny galley kitchen) so she doesn't follow her and entertains herself. When my mum looks after her she can do other things too. I think by that age you can say "mummy's busy, go and play with xyz" and they can do it for a short while. But I haven't really experimented

DS at that age was quite needy too - but was happy to watch tv so I could do stuff. Less happy to play by himself. Now he's nearly 4, he's happy to play by himself more but he needs to know I'm in the vicinity. So if I go out of eyeshot for more than a minute (literally, I get a minute!) he starts a plaintive screech of "Mummeeee?? where ARE you??" even if I've told him exactly where I'll be and what I'm doing.

I don't give in to it all the time though - or he'd have me doing sticker books all day long! I've bought him a couple of jigsaw puzzles, easy ones, and grandpa recently sent one over from the UK - but he won't (I ^carrrrnnnnn't, Mummy, I too little!) do them by himself, I have to do them. So I have developed a more hardline "if you don't want to do them, that's fine, let's put them away again because I don't want to do them either."

My DS2 is 2.9 and this is how today went:

6.15am awake, have breakfast, play with toys in bedroom, get dressed and take older brother to school then come home via shops
9.30 catch the bus to town, get DS some new shoes and did some Christmas shopping
12.30 lunch
1pm didn't really see him, he was in his bedroom creating havoc, I mean playing nicely with his toys
2pm read a couple of books, get ready for school run again
3.45 back from school run and vegetable shopping. DS washed the veg for roasting
4.10 read 3 books, got down toys at his request and he is currently playing cars/bin lorries/fire engines whilst I am on the laptop. When dinner is ready in about 15 minutes we will eat it and then he will play some more, DH will get home from work and read him some stories/do a jigsaw and then DS will have a bath and go to bed

We have been out quite a lot today as you can see, but I would say he plays by himself or with minimal intervention from me about 60% of the time. Often in the same room but not always. Ds1 was about the same.

I think personality does come in to it on some level. DS is now 6, but as my PFB I was desperate to play with him - he was having none of it!

DD will be 3 in January, and although she is happy to play by herself (or with her brother) she is much more likely to ask me to play with her.

I have a 5yo that entertains the 2yo! (Sorry- not much help I realise)

With my pfb, they were always encouraged to play while mummy played (I.e. read, tidied up, cooked etc) my 5yo adores vacuuming, what can I say? It's such a burden to give in to her demands...

I think a big part of it is the childs personality, ds1 needs more attention than ds2 though there's only a 19 month gap so they had each other as playmates from a fairly young age. Ds2 is very independent and will play for ages by himself.

Ds2's best friend (both 4 next month) wants his parents to play with him all the time but I think he associates it with them. When he comes to my house if his mum's there he asks her to play with him, if I'm looking after him (without her) he doesn't ask me. He's happy at nursery and isn't clingy, it's a pure association that they've always done exactly what he's asked. He is a lovely little boy though so I don't think it's done him any harm, just a bit relentless for his parents at times...

Your dd is still quite young, but I would say now is the time to start telling her you are doing something, maybe get an egg timer and say "mummy is unloading the dishwasher, I'll play with you when the timer beeps" then you can set it to know you'll have time to finish the job. Maybe at first only set it for 1 minute, so it's a relatively short time and she will soon learn that she has to play on her own, but that the timer will go off and that you will then play with her before you know that timer will be set for 3 hours like mine

My DD is a bit older than yours, three and a half. I'd say I entertain her or we play or chat about 50 per cent of the time. If we are at home she might watch half an hour of tv or play on the computer, but the rest of the time she will be pottering round playing by herself or helping me do something like make the dinner or hang the washing out. We would usually go out for some of the day, and I would do max one arty crafty activity with her. She has always spent time with a CM or at nursery, and I think that teaches them to play on their own quite well. I take no credit anyway!

I think it probably is down to the individual child's personality but I'm all for encouraging as much benign neglect as possible.

DS (2.5) now manages 15-20 mins in a room playing on his own but will play for an hour or so quite happily if I'm in the room doing something else. I usually let him choose some toys and we play together for about 10 mins doing whatever it is he wants me to do. I can usually then say that I'm off to do the washing up for 5 minutes and wander off without protests. Initially I started doing this with him in the same room as me (playing playdoh in the kitchen while I washed up usually!) but now he's happy wherever.

I'm not altogether convinced its particularly good parenting - I sometimes felt a bit guilty for not being more involved. It started as a survival tactic for a grim pregnancy plus toddler and was useful with a newborn. Now though, I actually find it fascinating to watch his imaginative play out the corner of my eye while I mn

ditto Dobalina, I'm very big on benign neglect, if I'm in the vincinity my DS (3.5) will play for up to an hour on his own, with just the occasional request to fix postman pat's door, or pull apart some stuck lego. As I type he is chattering away with his trains.

I do think personality plays a big part in it though, and count myself incredibly lucky I have such a self-sufficient, imaginative boy. While my (bad!) parenting has a bit to do with it (I would probably say 'no, mummy's busy at the moment' and ignore the subsequent tantrum at that age more than the OP does) I don't think you can totally change a child's personality - some children need lots of interaction and some don't.

I'm currently downstairs on the laptop while DD plays upstairs with her dolls (she's 2.5), but it's coming up to lunchtime so she'll be down in about 20 minutes when her tummy-clock goes off. There are definite times of day when she's happy (if not happier) by herself and others where she wants to be involved. Quite often if we've done something together (for example this morning we made a couple of cakes while DS napped) then I'll tell her I'm going to do X other thing and she'll wander around for a bit and then find something to do. This does often result in her taking her clothes off and practising putting pyjamas on or dressing up in her 11mo brother's clothes (she's just mastered buttons so likes to practise but has no concept of too-small!) but that's quite handy if it's coming up to bedtime.

It IS ok to say 'no, I'm doing this now' to your toddler - in fact I think it's essential. They get used to it pretty quickly. And then when you're done you can say 'why don't we do some drawing now?' or whatever. I don't believe in taking all the responsibility for entertaining her - it's NOT good for them.

ProvincialLady, I am dying with envy at that description. I always read the threads about how much housework a SAHM should do like this because while I can do it, it's a constant, and I do mean constant, battle. On weekends DH and I negotiate who's going to be in charge of toddler entertaining so the other one can get stuff done. Turning on the computer or picking up a book before she goes to bed is impossible.

I do say "I'm doing this now", but it's a matter of "I need to clean the kitchen, DD, and then I'll come and play with you" with the response being "have you finished yet? Can I help? I need help with this game, I want to do snipping and I can't do it on my own, I'm thirsty, can I have a snack, mummy have you finished yet?". Even TV gets me a "Mummy will you stay and watch TV with me" and complaints if I walk into the kitchen to start tea, these days.

She does initiate the games, though. She doesn't wait to be spoonfed in that regard, she's very imaginative, she just hates playing alone. To some extent I do need to toughen up, but I get exasperated that she won't accept that I need to, say, clean up her breakfast (I mean it's not even a fun thing I'm trying to do!). I don't mind doing housework, or cooking, I'm odd like that, but having to fight with my child for the right to scrape her dirty plate in the bin? That's just unreasonable!

Oh, and she's in nursery three days a week, has been since one year, that hasn't made a difference.

Tortoise, I'm watching with interest as my DD is just the same. At the moment she is very into role play games, & constantly wants me playing with her. This works a bit better as sometimes I can pretend to be a doctor while I'm doing housework/feeding the baby... but the idea of her playing by herself for up to an hour . She's bloody taken to switching off cbeebies & coming to hunt me down too!

Ha, my best current trick is "hide and seek". She hides, and then I'm like "hmmm, where is DD? Is she in the pantry? Is she hiding in this dishwasher? Perhaps she has hopped into the washing machine? Oh, there she is behind the curtain, well done DD."

If you are used to continually intervening it can become almost a subconscious habit, so that when DC does finally get into playing by themselves or amusing themselves you find yourself automatically checking up on them & interupting them without realising you are doing it, which then leads to them expecting you to be around more. Or at least I found this & wen through a stage where I wanted to say, "oh, you are doing well with that puzzle" to DS but stopped myself to encourage him to be independent.

Another thing to watch for is not to have too many things accessible in their room or play area as they will find it difficult to select something to focus on & spend time with if there is an endless plethora of toys all over the place.

I think it can sometimes feel worse as a SAHM cos you feel you should be more interactive as you are around more & should be able to keep the house immaculate whilst ensuring DC is stimulated etc like you've got no excuse to have the perfect set-up. I think my mum used to leave me to my own devices most of the time while she did the 70s housewife thing but she still had a nervous breakdown anyway!

I'm definitely taking notes - I like your idea curlybrunette as I'm about to go on mat leave and I can see it's not sustainable 7 days a week. Thanks for starting the tread tortoise

Similar to TPL. I've always encouraged DS1 to play independently, he decides what he's going to play with etc. I will help him set up, or play for 10 minutes and then go and get on with things and he will carry on. We always sit and read for half an hour or so at some point during the day, minimum, and then again at bedtime.
I'm not especially strict with TV, if he wants to watch some then he can but it is pretty self-regulating and he is never stuck in front of it for hours.

It was a godsend when I had DS2, because DS1 wasn't used to me being by his side all the time so he coped really well.

I think they are worse when they are at nursery or whatever, because then they are used to adults playing with them and intervening more.
DS1 is much less self-sufficient since he started preschool, I have really noticed a difference.

DD is 18 months but will be following this thread with interest- at the moment I find myself veering towards the helicopter approach not because DD might be lonely, but to make sure she isn't drawing on the walls/ throwing things out of the window/ emptying oatmeal from the cupboards into my handbag..
Am really trying to encourage independent play but it is a bit of a struggle. If I leave her with paper and a pencil the walls are decorated rather than the paper as soon as I turn my back - so my 'No, walls are not for drawing on, why not do something else?' approach ends up counterproductive every which way!
Thanks for starting the thread tortoise, I hope I can learn something..

Hi tortoise I also have a nearly 3 yr old and am finding him pretty demaning of me just now although he is also the same with his dad! I find that he's worse the more busy I am e.g. with housework and 'rushy/busy' whereas if I just sit down and do less /go slow he'll sometimes go off a bit by himself. Also sometimes if I start him off on something eg painting (with a little pallette he can be quite independent) he'ss be happy to keep doing it himself..other times not. We go out a lot where he's happy to go off himself more. However it's tricky when you are trying to get stuff done at home. getting them involved in cooking/hanging washing can work quite well, but ou need the patience and time to slow dow. I too have been turning on Cbeebies a bit too often recently and don't want to be relient on it. His brother not 6 was more independent than this so I wonder if it's their personality. Also their age. Maybe in a year or two we'll miss it!

I find the more you do play with them, the more they expect you to. So when she is telling you she needs you to do XYZ with her and gets upset if you say no, try saying something like "I'll cut out three things for you, and then I have to go and do X." and then get her to count those three things. Then even if she's upset just go and do the thing you need to do. Normally the upset doesn't last long. Or set something up for her and then go off and do your thing. I will help DS build a train track and set all the trains up for him, I explain beforehand that when I've put all the trains on the track then I will go downstairs, and he's usually happy with this, but if he persuades me to play for a little while then he gets really upset when I say I have to go and do something else now, because he doesn't really understand the concept of time. So there needs to be a clear barrier between the task you help with/do together and then the follow on one they do themselves.

We also enticed him to play by himself by putting his favourite toys in his bedroom so that he had to physically go away from us to play with them. And then of course we weren't there to ask for help every 30 seconds so he worked out how to do lots of it by himself.

PinkPoncho that's so true as well! If I'm on the computer MNing or something, DS is happy to run off by himself, but when I'm trying to sort washing or cook dinner he's whining at my ankles or clambering over my clean piles and I get really annoyed with him. So have been trying to involve him in helping with stuff a bit.

DS probably does watch too much TV though. I find after a while of watching TV he gets bored and goes to do something else.

Yes it can be frustrating then when you've got all the time one day you sit down and that will be the time they're off (or not-maybe the bliss of a cuppa/quick read!) But, that busy day when you need to get stuff done they'll be clinging on...maybe the key is to slow down..generally. Mine is very homely just now. "Stay home" he says when I suggest going out. Which is fine up to a point. I know a few mums who take them out each morning to a class or something- don't want to do that either as feel they shouldn't need that, the money and would get nothing else done! However, if we do go out for a bit to toddler group or the library, I do find he sometimes goes off a bit too when we get home. As if it's influenced him somehow. Only sometimes mind you.