So honestly, how much time do you spend entertaining your 2-3 year old?

[Tortoiseinadarkspell]

I mean vs 'benign neglect'. Can one do benign neglect at that age, or does it just mean 'putting on cBeebies'?

Because my DD is almost three, and on my days home with her I spend pretty much all day actively entertaining her. I do do housework and errands and things as well, but the housework is a constant battle of 'just wait a second DD while I unload the dishwasher and then I'll come play' and actually on some days I end up unloading/reloading the dishwasher in several stages, breaking to help her do something or read her a book or whatever in between. Or I have to make up games that allow her to join in.

DH, by contrast, tends to be on his laptop when looking after her. Not all the time, that's unfair, he also takes her to the park or shopping or gets her involved in helping with some carpentry project, but if he's with her in the evening or gets up with her, he tends to let her just 'be around him', sort of thing. I think it's rude, but I can't ignore the fact that when she's with him, she's much, much more inclined towards independent play because she doesn't expect his undivided attention. So, I don't know.

I'm not complaining, it's just that when there's threads about it's good for children to be bored, etc., I wonder what age people mean. I do try and get DD to play on her own a bit, and to 'stretch' the intervals of independent play, but we're still talking a few minutes at a time. I've always believed that it's better to give young children time rather than stuff, and I'm strict about TV, but have I turned into a helicopter parent without noticing? By this age, should she be more willing to be ignored?

Am watching this thread with interest, trying to pick up some tips as to how to encourage DD (22mo) to play more independently!We've just got back from a week's holiday, so she's particularly needy at the mo, having had Mummy and Daddy on tap 24/7!

OP, I sympathise. DD is 3 and doesn't want to play alone, although she will for short bursts of 5/10 minutes, but only when she wants to.

All of your posts have resonated with me so far.

If I make DD wait longer than she'd like, I find she has begun to amuse herself by jumping on my furniture, smearing mouth and hands over the windows, throwing toys across the room, shaking table, bouncing across the room on her chair, banging on the window, pouring juice over the floor, or climbing into the clothes horse to name a few. (All ornaments have been placed 5 ft off the ground yet she will attempt to climb and retrieve them.)

Obviously, she doesn't do all of these things, because she is not left to her own devices for long enough, but she can do alot of damage in the time it takes me to jump in and out of the shower or brush my teeth.

I don't even let DD go to the toilet on her own because she will be found filling the toilet with toilet roll or climbing into the bath to access some shampoo and pouring it all down the plughole.

So DD does have me with her most of the time, simply because of the tricks she gets up to if I am not there to try to prevent them.

Yes I am starting to see more why the mums take their ones out to be entertained each day! Sounds easier doesn't it. In a way I'd quite like to do that but with the schools runs I'd get nothing 'done' just constantly running around! My dp keeps saying I need to be 'more firm' about him not bossing me around (the toddler I mean). he is still b'feeding and will tell me 'sit down mummy' hmm

I don't think you can 'get' them to play by themselves - it sounds hard but you have to MAKE them by simply not playing with them. IME BertieBotts is quite right - if you give a definite cutoff and then fulfill that promise then they're usually much happier with it. For example - "I will make you a PlayDoh mermaid and then I'm going to hang the washing out. When I've hung it out I will come back and play with PlayDoh some more."

Out of interest, littlemisssarcastic what do you do when DD is deliberately naughty as you describe?

littlemiss - that sort of behaviour from my 3 year old would result in either time out in his room, or removal of favoured toys!

mine fared better if we did things to a bit of a routine.
so dd1 knows that after breakfast, mummy gets dressed, washes the breakfast things and sorts out any laundry. she knows then that she has to entertain herself until i'm done and have a coffee in my hand. Ditto after lunch and after tea (telly time is after tea IF all tidying has been done as requested).

tbh, I am glad I read this thread, because I have got into a bit of a rut and couldn't think what else to do.
I tell DD in simple terms that XYZ is naughty and a simple reason why...and have been trying to make her understand why it is naughty and that it makes me angry and sad. Now that sounds pathetic seeing it written down.
I went through a phase of giving DD time outs...would sit her on the bottom stair with no toys at all...but it didn't seem to have much effect if I'm honest and I spent the whole time worrying about what she was doing. She honestly doesn't seem to care if she has time outs.

I know this sounds lame, but I'm not sure how much actually sinks in IYSWIM. I would give her 2 minute time out for doing something wrong, eg: for squashing lunch into the window. She would come out of time out, and go straight back and do it again, even though I have explained in as simple as possible language that it is naughty.

I couldn't make it any more simply than I do.

I have sadly come to the conclusion that DD can't be left alone for more than 5 minutes at anytime.
Yes, in one way, it makes life more difficult, but in another, it makes life easier than finding the results of leaving her alone for longer and I can prevent more before it happens IYSWIM.

The only time I take my eyes off of DD is when she is in bed, then the house is practically silent so I can listen out for her.

DD is hard work, and I would love some time off, which I will get tomorrow while she is at nursery.

Depends. At weekends DH and I are both about and we have two kids, so its probably a bit of both - entertaining/activities/trips out and a good spot of 'benign neglect'.

I work four days a week and on my day off I have DD and make a real effort to do stuff with her, but if I was a full-time SAHM I would have to get other things done and so CBeebies - and that great 1970s parenting technique known as Entertain Yourself, Mum Is Busy - would have to be employed

DD1 is terrible (and always has been) for playing by herself, DD2 is brilliant. I think this in part is PFB v NSC dynamic and also due to the fact they are completely different characters.

DD1 does not play with toys, so if i am in the kitchen prepping/cooking/clearing up she is at the table colouring, doing craft (she will entertain herself for ages with a pritt stick & glitter) or doing jigsaws. I have to be nearby to interact/comment/praise but can get away with not helping.

DD2 (just 3) on the other hand will sit with her Peppa Pig castle and make up stories, or do play cooking for ages with no need to interact with me.

If you can set up something for her to do in the same room as you where you can chip in intermittendly with encouraging comments this may help, rather than trying to get her to help you with boring stuff? Wooden spoons and saucepans in the kitchen are another option (if not a tad noisy)

Another thing is that DD doesn't actually take any notice of what I am asking.

DD, come here, it's time to get dressed. No response. I pick her up and man handle her into her clothes after max 2 requests to co operate.
DD, stand still while I brush your hair. Flaps around. I persist and her hair is brushed.
DD, eat your breakfast. No response, so DD goes out hungry, although it doesn't seem to bother her at all.
DD, we are going out now, hold my hand. No response, tries to run away, I take hold of her and she drops to the ground, so I pick her up and carry her kicking and screaming for about 2 minutes before I let her down again, take her hand, she drops to floor and repeat and repeat and repeat.

DD never ever puts any toys away. I can ask her to help me countless times, but she just doesn't respond. I get cross and tell DD off. She takes herself off to another room but physically wont pick up any toys when I make her come back in.
I have removed her from the room until she helps tidy before, but then the toys are out all day, and I'm not exaggerating. She will not do it. I still had to tidy them all away.
I also tell DD (and stick to it) that she cannot have the toys out if she wont put them away afterwards, which usually means she will find other ways of amusing herself....such as headbanging, climbing, jumping, etc etc etc.

I am a shit mother because I am tired of it, I never get a break, and I don't know what to try next.

I wish I hadn't written all of that now. I feel shit, and now everyone else knows how crap and ineffective I am.

LittleMiss - i don't think you sound crap at all . You sound like you are being consistent and not giving mixed messages at all. It all just sounds very draining though so no wonder you are feeling very down . Does she do similar things at Nursery or when with family or is it just at home with you?

If just with you then i think you need to find the one thing that really does matter to her (although sounds like that is tricky). WIth my DD's tidying up can generally be accelerated with the incentive of TV or food. Also here having a story is held in very high regard.
If she is like it with everyone, then maybe you and Nursery can try and work together to come up with some stratgies?

All the best to you though, you sound exhausted by it all. Have some to brighten your day. x

littlemiss - don't feel crap. DS1 is really stubborn, what you describe in terms of being ignored etc is very familiar to me!

There are certain toys that he has that he is really attached to, and that he hates to be parted from. These are what I remove and things are improving over a period of time. I also heap on the praise massively when he behaves and we are slowly, slowly making some progress.

Hang in there.

Thanks for being so supportive.

I think alot of my shit parenting has to do with my situation, I feel like DD has been through so much already, her father doesn't want to know her, and she misses him terribly. I am living in poverty, never getting a break makes me snappy with her sometimes, and I just don't enjoy the constant treadmill of juggling everything.
Life is rubbish sometimes and today has been one of those days.
I feel sorry for DD now she is tucked up in bed. Her whole life must seem like one of being told No, leave that alone, in a minute, do this, do that etc etc.
It must be rubbish for a child to have such a miserable parent, who spends more time telling you not to do stuff than who gets along with you.

I just want DD to be happy. I don't know how to make her happy though.

SazZa DD is lovely at nursery they tell me. She is just naughty with family she sees regularly. She can be horrid to my mother, but is quite nice for other family members whom she doesn't see as often, and surprise surprise....she is the epitome of sweetness and light on the rare occasions she does get to see her father.
He plays with her far more than I do though, he spends all their time together playing. (He leaves the responsible bits to whichever woman is with him at the time...his girlfriend/his mother/me)

Tomorrow is another day.
Any tips to start my day tomorrow on a more positive note anyone??

I think I have just got a little lost along the way. Too much guilt and not enough logic going on in my house maybe??

How old is she, emotionally? DS1 can grasp 'yesterday was rubbish let's try not to do that again'.
I find that singing, keeping things moving quickly and not giving him time to object work well. If he starts to play up then I try to be matter of fact with him, not raise my voice and give him 1 warning before sanctions kick in. It doesn't always work by any means but things are better than they were.

littlemiss - there is a thing that I learnt when training in NLP, that says some people need a certain number of times to learn things before they "get it". Some people will get it in one, others may take several times. The NLP trainer said his 3yo DD was a "7 times repeater" - i.e. it took her seven goes to get it. DS is a 4 times repeater - the 4th time is the one that sinks in. So I say things 4 times - and he does it on the 4th. Your DD might not get it by the second time, so you could try saying it more often until she does get it, then see if there's a consistent number of times that work for her.

Littlemiss your situation sounds really hard It sounds like your daughter saves her more challenging behaviour for the people she trusts in her life, which is kind of flattering in a 3 year old!

Littlemiss doesn't sound like you're crap at all! Just trying very hard in a difficult situation. Just an idea because both mine were /are just like that with not wanting to do stuff..think it's an age thing too and maybe something about them wanting to be independent? Could you say stuff like 'shall we go out? ok so you'll need to get dressed.." "Shall we make your hair all lovely and soft..so lets brush it..'.let her brush yours perhaps so it's a bit like a game..Let her make simple choices about which shoes to wear for example, and clothes so she feels she has a bit of control in her world..make a big fuss of stuff she does well for example when she doesn't do 'naughty' things, praise her lots...HTH a bit...oh and we are just sat here having many breakfasts watching Spot dvd for the Nth time...hmm x

Don't think I read your post very carefully littlemiss, sorry!

re. not putting toys away - I fixed DS's reluctance over this by removing all the toys that weren't put away into bin bags and telling him they were going. I put them in the garage rather than the bin (can't bear throwing things out, even for a principle) but he didn't get them back for a couple of weeks. It helped the next time he refused - I just threatened to do the same again. But he doesn't do the physical stuff that your DD does so it might not help with her.

You are in a very tough situation with her - sounds almost like she is punishing you for still being there. Her Disney father won't be helping the situation either but she is taking out her grief and anger with him on you. Poor little thing! Not that that helps when she's being ultra difficult of course. :(

Rest assured though that you are NOT a "shit mum" - you are doing the best you can at the moment under horrible circumstances.

Hey, thanks all.

Littlemiss, you sound like a great parent to me! She's just three.

This has all been really helpful, including the people who are saying 'you just have to make them play alone'. Because I knew that, really, but hearing actual techniques is great.

And hearing from those who have much more independent players, while it makes my jaw drop at the unimaginable luxury, makes me feel better about all those threads about how being a SAHP is so easy compared to paid work, and it's just lazy not to be able to get the housework done. I know I'm not lazy, but it's good to have it confirmed.

TBH, I'm also 37 weeks pregnant, so I'm currently swinging back and forth between 'do I make the most of these last weeks with DD alone' and 'should I train her to expect less of my attention now so it's not a total shock when DC2 arrives', but either way, things will change very soon.

Good God, who ever said that being a SAHP was easy compared to paid work?? There are days when I would tear anyone who even thought that limb from limb.

Tortoise your DD is old enough to understand about babies and what needs to be done for them. You could show her breastfeeding and nappy changing and explain that soon you'll be doing it for a real baby - encourage her to do it for one of her dolls.

Hi again Tortoise if she hasn't started yet going to preschool can be a godsend to give you some time with your new baby. (I had my second when ds1 was just 3 also.) It sounds dreadful the idea of it but i used to like those parent and child swimming sessions at the local pool towards the end of my preg (up to a point)
It was a time just for parents and under 5s where they could just potter about with floats and things. In the little pool, it was nice and warm and there was a shallow bit with fountains where ds1 could have armbands, would play and a little slide. It was worth the getting changed bit as I could float about in the water. I also did a toddler swap with a friend so i could go to the hospital physiotherapy pool sessions for pregnant mums which was lovely (one morning I'd sit with both nearly 3's at a toddler group in return for the other mum sitting with them both for lunch while I did my class.

HTH and just ideas it was nice to have a bit of time just me and the evening yoga class I'd done in my first preg was something like 7 to 9pm and I was just too shattered for that...

little miss you sound like a lovely mum who really cares for your little girl. Please, please don't feel guilty about your family situation. DS doesn't see his dad at all (his dad's choice (sad)), yet he's pretty mellow, thank God.

I have observed a lot of toddlers, and have seen stable married couples with rather "challenging" little ones, and single mums with chilled out kids, as well as vice versa.

To be honest, it seems to me that a toddler's personality is pretty much innate. Sure, you can influence it with parenting, but some kids are just going to be harder than others.

The good news is that, often, difficult toddlers turn into lovely older children! (based on what I have seen of my friend's kids)....

littlemiss - sounds really tough, doesn't sound at all like you're a shit mum. my dd (2.10) is as stubborn as a mule (i think it's genetic: every member of my family, plus her father is a shockingly stubborn guy) and does all that not hearing you stuff - though it does eventually get through to her if you just keep repeating it.

we've found that she responds better to requests than commands and that bribery is more effective than punishment (if you do x then we can do y). the hair-brushing sounds really familiar, but we present it like toothbrushing, as non-negotiable. eventually i think she'll comply, she did with tooth brushing. it can be very hard to keep your patience with, i know. on time outs, we use a naughty corner but she has to stand facing the wall and sometimes she has to be put back in it a couple of times. it does work, though i think it's as stressful for us as for her. a thing that i do find works for her is to tell her that some things are naughty and only naughty boys or girls do them, but that she is lovely and therefore she doesn't do these things: she responds quite well to being told she is lovely

i don't know if any of that will help, but your posts struck a chord, it is very wearing sometimes....

am also watching with interest. 2.0 year old dd is sometimes able to play be herself while I busy myself sorting,making lists, emptying dishwasher (again) etc, but I recognise a lot of the stuff in other peoples posts. She would like me to be with her playing on the floor at all times ideally. I try to spend some quality time showing her how to play and mimmicing what good play might look like. Eg make a snow man play doh model and getting him to interact with the snake model etc etc. Other times she will copy the way I played with the toys, so Im convinced that they need teaching how to do it a little bit.
littlemiss your situation sounds hard and you sound a lovely mum. I wonder when you want your dd to do all those things if it would help to inject a bit of fun into it (even if you feel like your instict is to just get more strict. It sounds like what youre doing now isnt working out how youd like, so maybe try a change.

DD, come here, it's time to get dressed. Ohh, look what teddy is trying to put on, can you help him. It doesnt fit very well, would it fit on your legs?
*DD, stand still while I brush your hair.Look at this new (old, just been hiding in cupboard for a while) toy. In other words, distract. My dd also hates hair brushing.
DD, eat your breakfast. No toys out, no tv on, make the table the most interesting place to be. Model eating your breakfast too. If she still doesnt eat, she wasnt hungry, make no comment.
DD, we are going out now, hold my hand. Mummy is finding it hard to walk on this path, can you help? Gushing praise for help/holding hand.

Im honestly not saying that the above are all the answers and that its easy. Its not, its bloody exhausting, but it does get you out of a negative rut.