Is it ok to tell kids how priveleged they are?

[eggsareoffagain]

Hi everyone, looking for opinions here.

Me and DH and our 2 dcs have been living as expats for 9 years now, in various crappy locations countries. We are very well compensated financially for being away from our home country and family and for living in places which are often difficult and frustrating. There are many positives to our experiences too - our dcs go to very good schools with small class sizes, we all get to see some amazing parts of the world and life is often exciting and never boring.

Basically, I would say that my dcs have a very priveleged existence. They live in a large house with a pool, as do all of their expat friends. They are often invited to lavish birthday parties with no expense spared. Everyone they know has 2 parents together, has a maid in the house to do everything for them, has money for holidays etc, and can afford to buy their dcs whatever they want to give them. They live in a bubble, and mostly I would say that's a good thing. (Incidentally we make our dcs clean up after themselves and make them save up their pocket money for things they want, but we are in the minority in doing that).

Right. I've noticed more and more that my dcs are taking all of this for granted. Fair enough in a way, it's not their choice to be in this bubble and they don't know any different. But I think they are turning into expat brats. For example, it's very cheap to get local people to teach swimming, sports, horse-riding etc, things which would be seriously expensive if we were at home. I think of it as a great opportunity but my dcs don't want to do anything, and complain and ask why they have to. There's literally nothing to do here like parks, going for walks etc, so you need quite a few organised activities as there's plenty of hanging about the house as it is.

Do you think I should start to gently let them know that they are lucky to have these opportunities and that many do not? Or just accept that this is the way they are because of our choices?

eggs whatever the situation you are in, I think you are totally right to want to teach your dcs how priviledge they are. because they are, just as I believe my dcs are priviledged too. I want to teach them to appreciate that they have a roof over their head, that they live near the countryside and have the opportunity to go out and see nature around them. That they can go on walk wo feeling threaten.

What I am doing with my dcs is to ask them to tell me what they have appreciated each day, what sort of things they are grateful for. I do too and always ensure that I include things about them (as I've really appreciated the smiles on your faces when you saw X or Y), something about what is around us (I really enjoyed the ress on the road to work. they were beautifull because blabla). I want to impress on them that they should look around and appreciate what they have, not take everything for granted. But not in a 'look at these very poor people in Africa who are starving' type of way. The xamples you have given certainly reflect that. Perhaps you could insist on it more?

Finally, I think your issue could be solved by looking at things in a different way. not 'can we afford that?' type of things but 'do you really need it?' Your dcs might need organized activities because of where you are. so fair enough (regardless of the price). If they don't want to do them, then your issue isn't that they are spoiled but that said activities aren't interesting to them. Try to get he big picture here. Lots of children would behave that way in the UK too.

I also think you getting a hard time from people who have no idea of what expats life is. There is nothing in your description that sounds out of place for people living like you. In some way this is an extravagant life style. but it also has some drawbacks and I know a few expat children who didn't enjoyed at all because it entitles lots of move for example (the ones I knew moved every 3 years)

Redsun I have to follow the rules in UK whatever I think! You would have a fit if you saw all the 3 years olds in the pool here.

IntheArmyNow I agree that people don't know what it's like unless they have lived like this. I don't want to go on like that as it sounds like I'm complaining, which I'm definitely not. If I say anything remotely like this at home my friends all start laughing at me in a "just can't get the staff" kind of way. Right now I'm wondering what to do as we've run out of water and the driver has already gone home. There were 2 big containers earlier so someone has taken them. That's the kind of silly things we deal with!

I agree that my being generally positive about everything as much as possible will help the dcs to see that we are very fortunate.

We're in Geneva and headed for Singapore early next year.
KL? If so, how is it?!

No not KL unfortunately, we are in Miri on Borneo. Geneva sounds good! Good luck with your move.

My 5yo has an age-appropriate understanding that she is lucky to go to school, and lucky to have toys, and lucky to do fun things, and lucky to live in a nice house with bathrooms and clean water. She understands that not all children have these things, and that we should make the most of our opportunities (ie not whinge about music lessons). I don;t think I bang the drum, but it comes naturally into conversation sometimes and I do think it is important that all privileged children understand that they are lucky, not entitled.

Yes kids should be reminded how lucky they are, every now and then.

No you shouldn't bang on about it all the time so that they feel guilty.

No they shouldn't have to do activities just because they are cheaper... By all means give them the opportunity to try everything, and see what they are inspired by.

Don't let anyone on here tell you your life is less meaningful because you have a maid and can afford nice holidays and hopefully a bigger house in a few years time. Yes your children will miss out on things like being able to walk to the shops on their own and a closer relationship with their grandparents, but they will learn new languages, travel the world, swim every day and mix with all walks of life (in a different way that you would with different nationalities at a inner London comprehensive... Both are valid experiences of course).

I grew up as an expat and loved it. I want the same opportunities for my children. We currently live in Sudan of all places' with 2 dc under 3 and it's been amazing. I hope my children turn out as lovely as yours sound.

Thanks Boobz for your kind words. It helps me put it into perspective - yes my dcs might be priveleged and come across as a bit spoilt (I hope not but...) and naive sometimes but I am so proud of them when they walk confidently into their new school and each new situation. Sudan sounds exciting!

I've been thinking more about the different activities we offer the dcs and wonder if their current reluctance is related to all the changes we've had. We haven't stayed anywhere more than 2 years, sometimes quite a bit less, so it's hard for them to stick at anything. Sometimes they would get very into a certain sport or hobby then we would move and it wouldn't be available in the new country. So I understand that they might not want to put everything into tennis for example as they don't know how long they will be able to do it for anyway (although I think you can play that everywhere which is why I thought it was a good idea to try to get them to a decent standard now while lessons are affordable then they have a skill for life!)

I don't really understand why some people are giving eggs a hard time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving children opportunities to try lots of different activities or choosing to live as an expat She sounds lovely and well-grounded and as though she is really trying hard to make sure that her children grow up as well-rounded, nice people (just like all of us here, right?). To read some of the posts here it looks like some of you won't be satisfied until she's living in a mud hut.

This has been one of the most interesting conversations I've seen on here in quite a while. Mumsnet at its most diverse..

I think we can all get something from here.. all our children are privileged in different ways.

I personally would be very uncomfortable with my children growing up in what the OP herself called "a bubble" as I would be concerned about the long term impact on their social skills and expectations of normality. As it is, I like the fact that my children share a classroom with children whose family/ cultural/ economic circumstances are wildly different. For me, ensuring that they grow up with this diversity is one of the greatest privileges I can bestow on them.

OP does sound like a very grounded person, though.. hopefully her children will be fine.

Thanks again, I think it's interesting too!

So far they are great socially, no worries there. I think their life has helped in that area, always meeting people from different cultural backgrounds (21 nationalities in a school of less than 100 kids!). Also expat circles tend to be extremely sociable (it gets a bit much at times!) so the dcs are used to playing with anyone and everyone while the parents drink home-made wine.

I agree though that they need to know kids from a variety of economic backgrounds. If I am totally honest I would say they are a little naive comapred with kids in UK at least, but not sure if that matters?

I've been thinking more about the priveleged thing, and even if some of you don't agree that they are, I still like the way they are growing up overall. Silly things, like, we can't get breakfast cereal. So when we go home in summer they each get to choose a box. Even cornflakes are quite exciting. I think my life is marginally easier without too many sugary cereal choices, and I like that it's still a treat for them!

Oh yes going back 'home' and rediscovering all the treats, from the Haribo's to the cornflakes....

OP, I have lived overseas and a lot of my passing friends were doing exactly what you are doing with your dcs. They were NOT more spoiled than the rest of us.
They certainly all had more curiosity and a better acceptance that people are different. And that you can live your life in a different way and not fell yours is better than theirs.
As far as I know most of them also got 'to do very well' in their chosen carreer as an adult.

I think that's great!

And also that the issue that you have with your dcs isn't really one linked with the way you live tbh. All children have a sense of entitlement for what they normally have. I believe that whatever it is, you should be showing them they ARE lucky undeed to have that at all. We, in industrialized countries, have far more than we need and we should learn all the appreciate more than we do.

I think in that case I need to look through this thread again and work out how much they need to know and how to talk to them about it. For example, it's blatantly obvious to me that I can spend the equivalent of the maid's monthly salary on a single grocery shop, but the dcs don't really need to know that much detail imo.

hello OP, you sound nice, your children sound nice.

I totally get your concern about not lecturing them or trying to make them feel guilty as your mum did with you. I think your instincts are right. It's definitely not ok to tell them they ought to enjoy tennis lessons if they don't. The fact that some other child would love those lessons is not their fault. (though might it not be fun to also sponsor tennis lessons for a talented local child whose ability your kids could look up to?)

I have an issue with saying to a child "you are lucky"/"you are privileged". Because I think it comes dangerously close to saying "you are different - permanently different - from the unlucky ones out there". I think that's bad even for a happy child because it can create a misleading sense that they aren't vulnerable like other people (leading to big shocks in future when vulnerability inevitably strikes). And I think it's really bad for a child who's going through an unhappy period because it suggests that it's not ok for that child to feel unhappy.

I think it would be lovely to talk about different ways of being lucky/being privileged. DS2 tells me his best friend (from a vulnerable background) has no toys. I don't deny it, but I point out that his friend is very lucky that he lives next door to a park and is allowed to walk to it by himself whenever he wants to - that's "lucky". I've then heard DS2 repeat this to the friend and have seen the friend look pleased by this positive comment about him. Whereas if DS2 had said "yes, I'm lucky, I've got lots of toys" it would have made the friend feel small.

Clearly, people who grow up with a beloved nana on the same street are also lucky - very lucky - and presumably many kids in the country where you live have that luck?

But of course I think it's absolutely fine to say that you/your partner worked hard and then had a big piece of luck getting a well-paid job that allows a big house that you don't have to clean yourself. Your daily life is obviously much more comfortable than the maid's daily life and it would be daft to pretend otherwise.

lingle,

You are totally right. It is about learning to appreciate what you have rather than comparing it with what others have/don't have.

Great post lingle, you sound very wise. That's so sweet what your son said to his friend, and I will definitely mention how people with less money than us are lucky in other ways. Indeed most of the local people here have their families around them. Many of the maids, however, have travelled very far from their families to find work, which I'm sure their families appreciate so better than not having anything etc etc. I'm sure my dcs can understand that without having to go into too much detail.

I think kids are probably quite aware anyway. I remember as a kid knowing that there was no point in asking for the new swimsuit I wanted because my parents would not be able to afford it until my Dad got paid at the end of the month. Now we have never been able to honestly say that to our dcs, we can tell them they don't need something, or that it's the kind of thing you get for birthday/Christmas, but they know we are not short of money. Hence why dd sometimes argues with me about paying for things herself - the second time she lost her school hat I took her pocket money for a new one. She was extremely grumpy about this, and even got some "mean mum" comments from her friends, but she hasn't lost that one yet.

we had the exact same lifestyle but they kids were still young so not that aware. I did worry about the 'bubble' and I do tell them that they are very lucky - you start to worry when they are home to the UK for the summer holiday and they think that the woman who answered their new little friend's door ( a 2 bedroomed council terraced house) is the maid. Even though we are now back in the UK and away from it all, we still have a better standard of living than most of their friends so I still tell them that not everyone is so lucky. I do worry about what their expectations are going to be like.

Lingle what a very wise post! I think you are absolutely right that material wealth is not the only 'lucky' thing that one can have.

Just because someone has a big house and car does not mean they are 'luckier' than someone with no house or car. Of course it helps to have those but they are not 'everything'. The person with no house might have other things that make them 'lucky' such as their health, fabulous family and friends.

I think people in the West need to stop concentrating on material wealth, and also look at other 'wealth' that people may have.

Personally I think it's better to be poor, and have your family and friends, than to be materially rich and have no-one. The high rate of depression in wealthy countries, I think highlight this issue brilliantly. In short, too much emphasis is put on material wealth as a measure of our fortune.

begonya I can just imagine that scenario! My DS once pointed at my Dad's garden shed and asked him if that's where his security guard lives.

saying nothing of the time we were out with our maid and i asked the children if they would miss her when she left and my 5yr old said, 'yes, because who will do all the cleaning?' as the tumbleweed rolled by.

Haha, got the idea already by age 5!

I'm always amazed (in a good way) by how quickly the dcs accept their most recent new life as normal. I remember a few years ago arriving in a new country and being taken out to a bar by other expats. We hadn't got a babysitter yet so had the dcs with us, and I was slightly concerned the bar might not be an appropriate place for them. No problem....they mucked about outside with all the waiting drivers, taking photos with the drivers' phones, demanding piggy backs etc, while we enjoyed our beers.

The thing is, depending where you are living, you will expect different things. I think it's normal for children living as expats like this to expect having a maid. The problem starts when they come back to the Uk or where ever this is NOT the norm and even considered as a lavish lifestyle. Then you get 'the' look from family/friends when they make that sort of comment (They must be totally ungrateful children....).

What I have learnt in living overseas as a child is that you need to adapt to the way people live where you are. So in one place you have a maid. In another, you wash your clothes yourself. I think that by reminding me that people do things in different ways, my parents taught me to accept that I would might have to look after myself so it didn't come as a shock iyswim.
There was also the trips back home where it was obvious that I had to help doing the washing up too and mummy & daddy were driving all on their own. And that was Ok too.

All very true. I value our time back home and am considering making it longer next year. This year they were just ridiculously excited to be taking the bus (planes are just booooooring ). All part of the experience....

I only live in Spain eggs so we don't exactly have culture shock to deal with, but I try to make sure the DCs spend several weeks a year at home. It's important to us all and without it, they wouldn't have the everyday experiences of being in Ireland (short trips are so artificial in that sense..) and nor would they have the wonderful relationship they have with my family and especially their much adored cousins.

I can get a bit anal about this, I realize, but I really want them to have childhood memories in Ireland and to experience all the quirky little things that they would never have in Spain, like eating a whipped ice cream sitting on the wall of a pretty little seaside town because it's too cold to actually go in the sea!!!!

I digress

Oh yes planes are booooring!
I remember doing a very long plave trip with 3 plane changes as an UM. I was 12yo - the oldest I could have been- I found it just the most normal thing to do.
When I talk to people now about doing that sort of travel, they look at me strangely and when I say I was 12yo, they are just incredulous. No way they would ever leave on their dcs doing that! But for me it was natural.

Thing is it's still the same now. When I hear plane, I can see a way of transport and I don't get much more exiting than with doing a car trip. H on the other side ....