Is it ok to tell kids how priveleged they are?

[eggsareoffagain]

Hi everyone, looking for opinions here.

Me and DH and our 2 dcs have been living as expats for 9 years now, in various crappy locations countries. We are very well compensated financially for being away from our home country and family and for living in places which are often difficult and frustrating. There are many positives to our experiences too - our dcs go to very good schools with small class sizes, we all get to see some amazing parts of the world and life is often exciting and never boring.

Basically, I would say that my dcs have a very priveleged existence. They live in a large house with a pool, as do all of their expat friends. They are often invited to lavish birthday parties with no expense spared. Everyone they know has 2 parents together, has a maid in the house to do everything for them, has money for holidays etc, and can afford to buy their dcs whatever they want to give them. They live in a bubble, and mostly I would say that's a good thing. (Incidentally we make our dcs clean up after themselves and make them save up their pocket money for things they want, but we are in the minority in doing that).

Right. I've noticed more and more that my dcs are taking all of this for granted. Fair enough in a way, it's not their choice to be in this bubble and they don't know any different. But I think they are turning into expat brats. For example, it's very cheap to get local people to teach swimming, sports, horse-riding etc, things which would be seriously expensive if we were at home. I think of it as a great opportunity but my dcs don't want to do anything, and complain and ask why they have to. There's literally nothing to do here like parks, going for walks etc, so you need quite a few organised activities as there's plenty of hanging about the house as it is.

Do you think I should start to gently let them know that they are lucky to have these opportunities and that many do not? Or just accept that this is the way they are because of our choices?

The experiences we would not have had otherwise - you obviously completely got the wrong end of the stick.

Like:

We used to go camping in the desert at the weekends and watch the stars. Or camp on the beach with no one else there at all.
My animal-obsessed son has seen monkeys and snakes in our garden.
My dcs can go on school on school trips to world heritage sights because they are just down the road.

Isn't that experience?

What's wrong with saving for a nice house?

Crikey.

OP to me it sounds extravagant, if youhave a driver, cleaner, maid.

I am really uncomfortable with your sentence "The rates for sport etc are definitely bumped up, but fair enough, they made the effort to learn English so they could work with expats." but I can't really say why - maybe I am over-analysing the whole thing. [hmmm] Perhaps it is because I recently re-read The Help.

The company makes us have a driver, they have a policy that we are not allowed to drive because they think it's too dangerous. The maid comes with the house, we don't have a choice.

I do't know why you're uncomfortable with that either - I know for a fact we pay more than locals. But as I said, fair enough.

eggs if you are making an honest living I do not think you need to justify your life to others. I do not begrudge anyone who works hard for a living or has had a win fall. Giving this more thought I think Lucky is not the right word but fortunate is more appropriate. Luck is a win on the lotterly possibly, fortunate is that you have a better life than others due to circumstances that have contributed, ie oppertunity, choices made, education and so on . in my stuation, Im on benifits as i studying, my dd is more fortunate than others But less fortunate than your family, that is not your fault.

I wouldnt justify your existance others as this is not the point of the thread.

Yes, there is extra effort in speaking English, however I actually think we mainly pay more because they know we can afford it and probably won't try to get the price down. I'm being honest here.

Nothing wrong with saving for a nice house.

You have choosen to go somewhere for the money and the lifestyle. You have choosen to go knowing that your dcs will not be able to walk in the street or you to drive, they will go to private school and you will have to employ a maid. You feel that your children are privileged because they only know children who 'have tennis lessons and 2 parents' . Fine. Then you pretend that you want a normal life for your dcs. And i'm just saying that in this case you could have bought a terrace house in East London - plenty culture and you wont be called 'madam' or your son 'sir'.

I just feel that whatever you do you cant have a 'normal' life as expat. And there is something not right to me if my 10 yo is called 'sir' by a 50yo maid or driver, thats the reason i refused to stay.

how about giving the maid a paid day off every week- and get the kids to clean the house and cook the dinner [with you]?

I'm not saying I want a "normal" life for them, we have no plans to go home in the near future. I still maintain that the lifestyle is not the main attraction. For some it most definitely is - most people here actually have 2 maids because you can pay them so little. Many of my friends never bathe their own little children or do any of their own cooking. I could do that if I wanted to, but choose not to. I'm trying to maintain some reality which is why I started this thread.

We have already done that - she only comes half the week but we have not reduced her salary because how could she live off less? I just didn't like having her around all the time.

I'm with Laquitar.

You chose this for the money and the lifestyle. Bit disingenuous to then make out it's a problem for your kids.

For me, no amount of money or number of maids could ever compensate for not having the freedom to drive myself , go to the shops by myself or give my kids the freedoms they enjoy here.

I think the whole idea that you think this is a priveledged life is odd. Rich, yes, priveledged, god no.

Well I don't agree, obviously.

Interesting you talk about freedoms because I feel that when we go home on holiday my dcs are shocked at the rules and regulations in the UK. Their life seems much freer overseas even with the restrictions. When my dd was 5 she could swim really well yet was not allowed in the pool without me in England. I feel like we enter a world of paranoia and health and safety when we go home.

Kids always seem ungrateful for what they have. It's just how they are.

Eggs OK I am going off topic for a bit. But I'm quite passionate about safe swimming.

Lots of countries, cities, won't let a 5 year old in a pool by themselves, or without a parent or teacher to actively supervise, even if the perception is that a 5 year old can swim well. That is not a world of paranoia.

1. Swimming alone
2. Swimming with an adult

Both 1) and 2) are swimming. There is no big great thrill in a 5 year old swimming alone. It does however increase the chances of drowning or near-drowning.

That said I have lived in a fair few countries, I can't say I think the UK have too onerous restrictions on children though? I don't know quite where you get that from?

It was at a public pool with life-guards, I didn't really want to go in but had to. No big deal really. She was always in the water with her friends where we lived though, with me or another adult on the poolside.

I think the UK is REALLY restrictive! I have had comments about my dcs playing outside when people thought they were too young, seemingly random rules in play areas without any common sense, basically my dcs feel very wrapped up in cotton wool when we go home.

Also the being suspicious of everyone unless they have a million checks done on them, I realise this has a place but feel it's gone too far.

Interesting post.

I think there are two separate questions:

1. Are they going to grow up lacking economic awareness, which might cause them social difficulties at a later date?

2. Should they do tennis lessons etc happily becuase the opportunity is there which they might not have got otherwise.

In my opinion, the answer to 1 is yes, possibly. The answer to 2 is no, and I don't think that is an issue.

At the end of the day, if they don't find an activitiy appealing then they shouldn't be forced to do it, as they won't get much from it.

However, I do think there is a bit of an issue with 1, as children and teenagers so quickly become 'normalised' by what they see around them.

I grew up in a very wealthy commuter area. My family had a large house and I knew lots of families living in houses with 5 plus bedrooms. My friend's parents were senior managers, senior professionals, airline pilots etc and people often took expensive holidays or had second homes. As I grew older I began babysitting for families who had lovely houses with pools, grounds, horses etc. I knew lots of people attending very expensive private schools and if my friend's parents gave me a lift or a babysitting client picked me up, it might be in a Porsche, Mercedes, Range Rover or BMW. So, because I was living around all this it did become normal for me - I subconsciously assumed that it was quite easy, when grown up, to have this kind of lifestyle. These people all seemed pretty ordinary to me, so I wasn't too impressed by any of it. Moreover, I think that these subconscious assumptions persisted well into my early twenties and until I began earning myself.

What kept my feet on the ground was attending state school and the fact that my parents, although they had bought a lovely house for a good price, weren't particularly wealthy and we didn't have a huge cashflow for all these extras. Our lifestyle was fairly simple. I also had to earn money myself from a young age, so I knew how much work had to be done for £4 hour and what that £4 could buy! The other thing that really helped was reading widely and getting a better understanding of what life could be like via books and newspapers. These factors meant that I didn't make too many awful faux-pas later on when meeting people who had grown up in different circumstances, but had I not been grounded in this way I would have been very likely to do so and come across pretty badly.

I think there is not much that you can do for now, but seriously consider exposing your children to more information about how much things cost in the UK and consider whether or not they should have some more extended trips back as they get older, just to live 'normally' for a while.

Also the being suspicious of everyone unless they have a million checks done on them, I realise this has a place but feel it's gone too far

do you mean checks on people that work with kids?
CRB (is that right) checks whether people have criminal records I believe, and what the criminal record is for. I think that is perfectly reasonable if those people are taking care of/ influencing your child on a day to day basis

I should expect thta the private schools your children attend carry out checks?

Thanks for your interesting response. I agree with what you say. My DH's father, who also worked overseas, said he used to observe that some of these priveleged kids lacked a hunger to work hard and achieve for themselves, because everything had always been provided. I'm not sure how you teach that "hunger" though - my DH said he always knew that if he wanted the same opportunities he had as a child for his own family, he would need to make sure he got the kind of job that would give him enough money for those opportunities. But I think he was unusually aware.

I don't know when my dcs will get some normality, we don't have choice about we where go, but will be encouraging them towards UK for university anyway.

I expect they do check the teachers, yes.

the lifestyle you lead is THEIR normal

i think whether they have humility, empathy and compassion is probably down to the core values that you and your family friends hold

-your actions, discussions you have etc

your last post -- how do you teach hunger suggests that infact you just want to make sure they have the drive and determination to be successful enough to continue a wealthy lifestyle in their adult life

Hi,
Well I know what you mean. We have three babes and I expect we shall be long term expats. V V conscious of the need to instill values, we are doing our best to make sure ours don't become spoilt brats! So yes, I do tell ours how lucky they are when they're sounding in the slightest bit whingey. Whether it's right to or not I don't know, but it's not an issue I force but just mention every now and then.

Pocket money, unloading the dishwasher, floor sweeping works - to a point!
So, where are you at the moment?

Bejeezus I would like them to get through school and achieve whatever they need to earn their own living! If they can find a career they really enjoy then even better.

We are in now in Malaysia, probably not for much longer. What about you TilGT?

Ok Eggs there is no way you should let a 5 year old swim in a public pool just with the supervision of a life guard. It is not the life guards job to supervise only your 5 year old. Public pools depths can vary but they can be deep enough to cause real issues for young swimmers (leaving aside the usual other hazards - other children, slips, trips etc and that the Life Guards are not going to know how good or otherwise the young swimmers are) so because of the reasons detailed in brackets I would find it bonkers to take a 5 year old to a public pool and not go in with them when they are swimming. Far too young in my opinion.