I know you will think this is very wrong of me but.....

[CliffRichardSucksEggsinHell]

I am starving my children to teach them a lesson!

The story is that dd, for 3 weeks now, has been refusing her meals. She sits there in front of it, perhaps occasionally picking up a single carrot or eating all the pasta that has not been tainted with sauce of any kind. She will then eat her pudding and ask for more dessert. Ds does the same, although admittedly he has been ill recently, but today he has eaten chocolate, yoghurts and compotes without any objection, yet when given his pasta dish, he threw a wobbly that the pasta was mixed in with the sauce and threw the lot across the table.

Sooooo, we have had enough. They have never had anything different to what we have had. We have tried the approach of just taking it away, giving them their pudding and that's that, but that is what they have been living off for 3 weeks now. They've recently started becoming fussy over their breakfasts too.

I'm not one to make an issue over food, but after watching dd again move her food around her plate with a sulky face, and witness ds throw his food all over the table, we have decided on drastic measures.

They get a drink of milk at supper, a drink of milk at breakfast. Absolutely no snacks of any kind. Dd goes to school with just milk inside her, hopefully she will eat her lunch. At tea-time they do not get any dessert unless they have eaten well, if they have not eaten their lunch they do not get any tea. We are hoping that they will get so hungry they will start eating again.

So you can condemn me now!

cliffrseih
what about taking away thew drink of milk
some alternative practionioneeers feel milk is a food not a drink and it coats the digestive tract thus quashing an appettie

it works with my dd who is a milk addict

But if its just at breakfast time and bedtime then it shouldnt be a problem really, plus her DS certainly still needs it.

puddle - I reckon it only becomes a battle of the wills if both sides are fighting as such. I would just change my attitude to one of "this is the way things are going to be." rather than "I will break you". As long as CR doesn't move the goalposts then her DD will realise fairly quicky that she can eat or starve.

My problem is that my two are at the childminders for most of the working day so I find it hard to control what DS1 gets to eat, I don't think my childminder could be as cruel/firm as me. However, if this works for CR, I have the christmas holidays to start this and ask my childminder to follow through.

just thought - dS2 drinks a lot of milk - there's my problem. Will report on Monday how well my toddler is eating after cutting down on his milk.

I am a true believer in no pud if main course isn't seriously dented. I have even put my 2yo's meal in the fridge and given it to her for her next meal! (really wicked?) if DS (5) is playing up and wants to leave the table, he is told he has to eat a certain number of spoonfulls before he can. It usually works for us.

Cliff - I am watching this with interest.
I am right behind you on this one .... I think that the general throught is that it take 3 days to break a habit ( and theirs seems to be complaining about food )

Keep going ... let 'em know who's BOSS

I agree with Beetroot. And Cliff's ds is only just two - this weekend. big difference between that and a nearly three year old in terms of understanding consequences IMO.

Eefs I think food is one of the few things (along with potty training) where children instinctively know they have the upper hand. Of course it's a battle of wills.

Dd is two and isnt a great eater but I've never really thought about it at all. I cant understand the reasoning behind not letting a 2 year old eat for the rest of the day if they dont each lunch. Perhaps I've misunderstood though as I've not read the other posts.

I apologise profusely if someone else has mentioned this already. Isn't it a bit of a normal phase for 2 year olds not wanting various items of food to touch? Do you go with it?

Agree with no pud.

I completely understand your frustration Cliff, my dd is a fussy eater too and has always had a tiny appetite. There has only ever been 1 very memorable occasion that she finished a plateful and asked for more, usually she only has a few mouthfuls! Therefore I am always putting lots in the bin but I really don't think there is any reason that should bother you. It used to bother me when I was cooking separate things for her (but always tried to stay calm), but now I'm cooking the same for us both who cares - sometimes I don't finish my own plateful either!

But, as I was also always a picky eater and who also had anxiety attacks going for dinner at other people's houses, I feel very very tense reading threads about food issues, battles of wills, making kids miss the next meal, giving them yesterday's meal if they haven't eaten it the day before, etc. Surely, surely all that really would result in a dodgy relationship with food? It is such a personal, intimate thing to put something into your body that it really is no surprise that most children have issues with what they're eating.

I absolutely believe that the very best way is no comment, no fuss, meal taken away as soon as they lose interest/play up - the fact that they feel hungry 10 mins later and get nothing then ought to teach them after a few times surely that they need to eat there and then?

Re your kids Cliff what stood out for me was the pudding thing. DD usually has milk straight after her meal and I am aware that she wants to get down asap to have some. I only give the odd petit filous out of the blue so she doesn't expect pudding, but I guess it amounts to the same thing. So, you should def stop giving pudding - at all. Give fruit or yoghurt or something as a snack later on if you want them to have those extra vitamins.

With my dd, cutting out snacks & cutting down her milk intake helped, getting her to help prepare the meal worked absolute wonders with regards to trying different veg she had previously never eaten...although, her appetite has not generally increased much and I have succumbed to the "five more mouthfuls then you can get down" if she says "Get down" after only 1 - which really makes me mad as i have usually only just sat down for my own meal! grrrrr. I don't even want to be doing that tbh but i'm just so happy to see her eating all sorts of things

Must also point out that a toddler's appetite will vary, they go through growth phases and i definitely notice this with dd, some weeks she'll eat loads (for her that is!) and requests a snack/milk more often than usual, other weeks she'll eat hardly a thing and not seem bothered by it at all. So perhaps sometimes they're just not that hungry...

oh god that was so long sorry!!!

Cliff, have you decided how long you will try this for? My ds is 3 months younger than yours so I'll be be watching with interest!

Interesting post bourneville - food for thought, so to speak

I had a lot of problems with ds1 when he was younger (will be 4 in Jan) and went to great lengths to get him to eat - reading stories, doing drawings, singing songs - he barely ate in the day and every night I would give him a bowl of porridge. He didn't want milk either so I was concerned about his growth/nutrition. I just had this gut feeling that if I didn't do this he would only eat the bare minimum to survive. He is much better now and eats something at mealtimes.

Am now having similar problems with ds2 (2 in March) but have adopted the opposite approach and remain totally relaxed. If he eats I praise, if he doesn't I take it away. His eating varies wildly from day to day - but I'm hoping that the non-pressurised approach will make him feel more positive about food. Also I don't have the time or energy to cajole him into eating.

One funny thing is that ds1 likes very plain food while ds2 likes it more spicy.

I misread your first post and didn't pick up on the fact that you weren't giving your kids supper if they didn't eat lunch and so on. Just thought that you were taking it away from them and not giving them any pudding or snacks. Anyway, just like to add something to my earlier posts and say that I think the "no supper if you don't eat your lunch" rule is a really, really bad idea. Kids appetites fluctuate drastically from day to day and it is very common for children, especially those under the age of five, to a) go through a picky eating phase and b) not be hungry at every single meal time. If you are worried about how much your child is eating, it's best not to gauge food intake on a meal by meal or even a day by day basis - instead look at what actually gets eaten over several days or a week. Offer your children food at each meal - if they don't eat it don't force them to/bribe them etc. Chances are you will just make things a bigger issue than they already are - and not feeding them at the next mealtime, when they may well be hungry is, IMO, really, really off. Especially if they are only 2. I know it is frustrating when kids turn their noses up at yet another meal - but it's our job as parents to at least put something in front of them. If they then choose not to eat it that's their problem - just take it away and don't give snacks/pudding. But at least give them the chance to do the right thing at the next meal - and be rewarded with praise if they do. Actually starving them makes a real issue out of a situation that you should be playing down and will just add to the stress of mealtimes... and possibly make them even less likely to want to sit at the table and eat. Please, please have a rethink.

Oh, and it can take about four weeks at this young age for the message to get through.

I'm really no fan of food battles, but you seem set on following this through. However, I just wonder whether you have given any thought to the long term physiological effects on their bodies?

I am a little worried that your plan will have the effect of putting the children into Ketosis - this is where the body is burning off only protein and often the bodies own muscle.

It is the basis on which the atkins plan works and other very low calorie diets. If the daily diet is deficient in carbohydrates then the body goes into ketosis. Now ketosis is seriously bad news for a child as it has a marked appetite blunting effect which means that the less they eat the less they want to eat.

There are probably ways round it with your plan, such as giving a sugary drink a couple of times a day, to increase carbs, but that will only bugger up blood sugar levels and insulin levels which I would worry might have long term health implications.

I'm a great believer that making it as easy as possible for them to allow good behaviour to come to the surface is wise As such are there any dead certs foodwise that you can put on the menu over the next few days until their eating is back on track?

and not make stuff that takes time and trouble so that if it goes in the bin it is ok? agree with soapbox it has to be said.

I'm doing the same thing too.DD1,previously an excellent eater,has taken to refusing meals or demanding I give her something else.

I am not setting myself up to cool different meals for her or dd2,so if she doesn't eat what she is given,she gets nothing else.If she goes to bed on an empty stomach-tough.

I meant that she gets nothing else until the next meal-not nothing else at all.

Ok, let me start by addressing a few misunderstandings first.

My children have a drink of milk at breakfast and supper only. They do not have any food at supper time, as this is impractical (they eat tea at 6pm, go to bed at 8pm) so I think milk is sufficient. At all other times of the day they have water or watered down fruit juice.

I will not now be eliminating the breakfasts. After reading some of the posts I realise that breakfast is important and will continue to offer it.

Ds may only be 2 but he does understand consequences. If he chooses to throw his food across the table then his food is gone, end of story. He next gets fed when we do. So if he does this with his lunch his next meal is tea at 6pm, no snacks.

Today they were both very hungry (I wonder why????), we all had curry for tea and guess what? They ate up! So I allowed them both a dessert (which by the way is only ever a yoghurt, a compote or a piece of fruit, nothing more) and I let dd eat a little box of smarties that she had brought back from school.

So far a success, we'll see if it lasts!