October Babies

[pie]

Not sure if anyone else is ready to join me here yet...bells, woodge???

Been up since 4am, please tell me that I'm not the only one!!!

and dh is going back to work tonight - and I don't want him too. I'm feeling really anxious about coping entirely on my own (he works 12 hour shifts, so tends to not even see ds when he is working). Especially since I fel unwell.

bluebear... i think you're right...dd is having playtime at nighttime as she only cries if i leave it too long to see to her needs. i have tried swaddling but she hates it and really screams... will try again though. how do i space out feeds.... already she feeds long and i make sure she gets lots of hind milk in a a feed by not switching sides until shes drained one and her daytime feeds are always long. i think prob with night feeds is i'm tired so do them lying down and we both drift in and out... need to do this more awake and pay her more attention. i wondered if she was cold and this was waking her... but shes a hot baby, seems to need less clothes than othetrs... or else wakes cos shes too hot. how many blankets do you use? and bluebear... 11 till 6...... oh pleeeeeeeeeease! luck you

spod - does seem like she has day and night mixed up - totally normal for this age (My dd is just freaky!). The normal 'recommendation' is to make night-time as unstimulating as possible - ie. dark room, no talking, (some say don't even make eye contact with baby) and then make daytime different by chatting to them and playing when they are awake. Supposedly, getting them out into natural light in the daytime 'programs' them by stimulating the pineal gland ( I take dd for a walk every lunchtime ). Don't know if any of this works, as I've said before my first child was a nightmare and dd is totally different so a lot of it must be luck!
Spacing feeds - never managed it with ds unto he went to nursery and hence onto bottles... boobs are just so easy to stick into wailing mouths My most common mistake is to try to feed baby when she is actually crying through tiredness, I'm trying to watch her for yawning, eye shutting etc. because once they get past a certain limit it's so hard to tell if it's food or sleep they want.

Oakmaiden.. how was last night? My dh is off to the US tomorrow so I have 5 days by myself with the two little ones.. very anxious but has to be done.

Was looking through my vast collection of baby manuals last night, really cross that none of them mentioned reflux as a reason for upset babies (upset being an understatement), when I found that the only book which defines it properly and gives good advice is the Mumsnet one! I know which book I'd recommend to pregnant friends now.

Blankets - bedroom temp is 19 degrees. Dd wears vest and sleepsuit and is wrapped in one sheet and one folded 'holey style' blanket. If she's still asleep when the heating kicks in, in the morning, she gets too hot and starts grunting and kicking about. ds was in a sleeping bag at 3 months.. they are great but arms and legs can flail about so am waiting a bit before getting dd one. HTH

last night was even worse..... she didnt go to sleep until 8am and then only until 10.45.... then woke for bum change and eventually went back off to sleep... on the sofa, where she is now. I think u are right bluebear, she doesnt know the difference between night and day and i guess i just have to teach her! quiet bedtime routine is a good idea will try that and we have been getting out in the day in the buggy, but of course she falls asleep in the buggy!!! dh suggests we take her out in garden during day and do a walk in the evening when its dark... see if that helps. its so strange cos the first 2 weeks she was doing the right things!! its just so tempting to give in and just follow her routine... sleep when she does etc, but know that dont help in the long run. thanx for your tips bluebear, much appreciated. Hope you managed ok oakmaiden.

Feel like I'm falling apart - and I don't know why I'm coping so badly. I'm on the verge of giving up breastfeeding - and I'm feeling a real failure about it. It is just that I STILL have problems latching her on - mostly because I have big nipples (too much information?) she has a short tongue and mild tongue tie, and she rarely really opens her mouth wide enough. So because the latch is poor she needs to feed for longer and more often - and it hurts. It doesn't help that I have almost a phobia about putting her to the breast - I really have to steel my nerves to do it - the tension there can't help either. But I am so sad - I really want this to work. I don't know how to cope though. Sorry - feeling a bit down this evening.

Oakie -I am SOOOOO sorry/sad to read this.
If it helps.... it is very common to feel very down at around 4 weeks (is that what you are at now?) - As you know I am a postnatal doula and a BF counsellor and it is amazing that

1. Most of my BF calls are of mums of 4 weeks old
2. Just about ALL my postnatal mums have a really hard time (which include seriously wanting to give up) between 3 and 5 weeks. If it helps you can always ring me

Oh Oakmaiden, big big hugs. I don't know what advice to give, but I'm here for a moan. Got to go baby isn't settling tonight, again!

Oakmaiden - what about expressing for a few days rather than BF ???? Giving you a WELL needed rest from pain - treating nipoples with Lansinoh too? Obviously express as often as you'd feed.... I know you know that.

Spod, my oldest was like that when she was small. She sometimes wouldn't sleep until morning, we were shattered. In the end the only thing that worked was being prescribed Vallergan by the gp to make her sleepy at the right time, and break her sleep pattern. It was only used short term ( a few days), otherwise it gets tolerated, but it worked.

Pupuce - thanks. I have spoken to a b/f counsellor, and she gave me a stern talk on not letting the baby have a bottle or using nipple shields until she is about 6 weeks old, because she felt that maybe Eleanor was getting confused and that was why she tends not to gape widely enough. Apart rfrm that she didn't have much to offer.
I have tried expressing, but can rarely get as much as an ounce out. Which barely touches the sides. I think I might take a risk on getting the nipple shields back out for a bit though. It is just so sad - occasionally she latches on beautifully, feeds quickly and efficiently and really seems satisfied. So I know we can do it - but more often it is just a fight where I take her on and off a dozen times and we still don't get it right. But I take heart from yor words (E is 4 weeks today) that maybe if I can get through the next week it may improve....

If it helps at all, Waitrose now stock Lansinoh I noticed today!

Oakmaiden - for what it's worth most babies breastfeed well at 6 weeks. As they grow, they get better.
I understand what your BF counsellor is saying - has she had bottles before ?
How are you expressing? You could cup feed too.

Oakmaiden Can't think of anything constructive to say - just thinking of you and hope it gets better from now on.

Pie - moan away - that's what we're here for!

Spod - dd falls asleep in pram, I hope the sunlight still affects her IYKWIM. Evenibg walk sounds good (never thought of that!)

Pupuce - yes, she has had a few bottles - I had cracked nipples early on. She had the last one over a week ago though.

I have made an appointment to speak to a cranial osteopath, on the recommendation of the b/f counsellor, so we will see wat happens there too.

I am still hanging in there! 12 days to get through until she is 6 weeks old.

Oakmaiden - if you can't express succesfully.... there you are going to have to wait to get her to improve..... I had 6 weeks of hell myself so I do know how hard it can be.... once it gets easier it will be a doddle and you will be sooo proud of yourself. How was your first child at BF?

Last time I gave up after 3 days - but of course had no support at all and it was in my pre-midwife days. This time I feel kindof obliged to keep going - mostly cos of the midwife issue - but it also has ade me realise how little information midwives really give women about b/feeding. It is a trickey one, but despite all my "knowledge" and background reading - not to mention practical experience at helping women to b/f in the early days, I have been totally overawed by the actual experience - it is so very much more confining/restrictive/difficult than I had ever realised.

Much chastened.

I know what you mean.....

Oakmaiden - sorry to hear of your continued B/F problems. You mentioned a tongue-tie. How mild is it? Could it be contributing to a poor latch? I listened to a paediatric surgeon talking about how he releases tongue ties where there are feeding problems and the improvement is immediate. He does it there and then at consultation visit. No need for anaesthetic as there are no nerve endings and no blood supply. Just a thought that the tongue tie may be more of a problem that you thought.
Mind you, you have said yourself that you have had some good feeds, so you know it can work. Well done for persevering. As pupuce says, babies do get better as they get bigger. Can B/F counsellor teach you how to hand express? Might be more efficient for you than a pump - and less painful. Hope it all improves soon. Best wishes, mears.

I had same thought as Mears on tongue tie but I presume the BF counsellor and Ind. MW would know if tongue tie needed to be looked at more closely????
I do agree with Mears.... if a tongue tie causes problem with BF (and sometimes it does not) then have it "treated" it's quick and simple..... however some arrogant peadiatric consultants refuse to ! (as it is the case in my town...... long story and big rant)!
BF counsellor CAN refer you to specialists though!

Pig of a day yesterday - dh went to USA, This upset ds and despite a fab morning playing in the park he refused to nap all day, got more and more hyperactive and for the first time I contemplated smacking him (didn't do it but so tempted), he was doing dangerous things again and again, (climbing bookshelves, jumping off the back of the sofa). Ended up with me taking him for the fourth walk of the day, dd in sling, ds in buggy, ds having tantrum and me having to stop him head-banging pavement whilst getting dd out of sling and into buggy, then sitting on pavement restraining ds and trying to talk him calmer whilst lots of 'perfect' Mums trotted past with their 'perfect.. never tantrummed ever' children. Took 40 mins to get him the 150m or so home. Got him to bed at 6pm with no broken bones (from his dangerous behaviour not dangerous mother), dd in bed at 8pm, insomnia for me so no sleep till 12, then dd fed at 2am, ds screaming for cuddle at 4am, dd fed at 6am, ds up at 6.30am. ARGHHHH.
Went to baby clinic this am. dd has put on weight but is still below her centile line from birth weight. HV asked how I was.. I said 'depressed'.. she has written in notes 'Mother feeling a little down.'
I am not a 'little down'... I am obsessing with morbid thoughts ( to phrase it nicely).. I am on a high if I manage to get out of the front door..
Grrrrr health visitors.

sorry, just needed to get it out of my system.. V.upset that the insomnia has returned. Everytime one of the children wakes me it takes me a couple of hours to fall asleep by which time the other one is awake.. so tired.

Bluebear if you feel that depressed why don't you speak to the GP?
How long is DH gione for???? Can you enlist extra help for the duration?
You could get a doula for a few hours... I know a few in London and I am sure one or 2 have a bit of last minute availability...

blimey... we're all feeling crappy!! me too!! have started to try and adopt the EASY plan... not strictly, but just the basic principles of it to try and convince dd that day is day and night is for SLEEPING!!.. have had some successes such as putting her down at 8.30pm in her crib and her sleeping for 2 hours - has refused crib before. we're havng trouble keeping her awake inthe day and convincing her to sleep at night though.. but its only day 3 and she is still young i know. One thing that baffles me is that she seems to get all her wind at night and needs changonf frequently and is clearly overtored yet will not sleep..... cries, frets, struggles, kicks.... finally at 7.30am she went to sleep on her dad for 3 hours. that was the total sleep for us all... of course now she is sleeping on sofa. How do i comfort an overtired baby during the night (when all i wanna do is scream for sleep)... have tried everything. partly efforts are hampered by needing to change dirty nappies frequently during night and she still needs to feed every 2-3 hours so no hope of sleeping through and getting by on only 2 night feeds!!! sorry... wil stop now!! Oakmaiden...I'm sure you have probably tried everything to get a decent latch on by now.... and theres nothing scientific about this but it worked for me.... cold cabbage leaves in your bra. My dd wouldnt latch on my left side so my mw suggested this as it makes nipple really cold and therefore erect and and better shape for her to feed from... also my mw said to do it to help with nipple pain... and it did work... need them cold so that your breast is numbed from the pain... might be worth a go... use outer leaves of a savoy cabbage. Bluebear... sorry youre having a crap day... i know what insomnias like... had it due to severe back pain a couple of years ago... makes you wanna cry don't it? i cant imagine what its like with 2 kids to look after as well... could try a warm bath when you cant sleep... if you have time to run one inbetween the needs of your ds and dd... afraid the only cure for me was anti depressants. god i feel like shit.

spod - sounds awful - I haven't tried the EASY thing (it's every 45 mins isn't it? My dd is doing a 90 min thing in the daytime ie. 90 mins awake before getting grumpy and needing sleep. Sleeping for 1-3 hours then feeding..etc) but the bit in Tracey Hoggs book about baby body language I have found really useful. Hang on in there..
Pupuce - I have an appoint with GP on Thurs.. was originally last week but childcare for ds fell through and I couldn't face going with both children so Thurs was the first available appointment with a non-locum GP at my practice (wanted to make sure I saw a Dr I knew as I had bad experience last time). I had PND after ds ( and depression with an eating disorder when I was younger) so I am a bit of an old hand I admit.. I can recognise that these feelings are not 'real' and know that they will pass but can't wait till I get some chemical help. Concentrating on eating/drinking/exercising (well, walking), and trying to get sleep and counting down the time till Thurs.. and then will be counting down time till ADs kick in.
ds is in nursery 3 days a week and MIL has him on Tuesdays so I have much more support than most. Dd is a wonderfully easy baby (sorry fellow october mums), so it's really only the mental stress I have to deal with. So strange that one moment you're making a cup of tea, and the next you're contemplating using it to swill down the rest of your prescribed painkillers.. very surreal.. but as I said, I've been here before and I know that I'll come through it. Thanks for your supportive post though.. mumsnet helps a lot!