Say something or keep our noses out??

[reenzeen]

Have no kids myself but am currently pregnant, my DH and I spend alot of time with my SIL/BIL and their 2 DD's (2yr and 4yrs) and I love them all to bits but recently its becoming really hard to be with them as all they do when they are in their own home or in their parents company is cry/whige and have tantrums.

The thing is they do this with no one else and are the best behaved children I have ever seen when they are with other family members.

My sil looks after 2 other children during the day and actually spends more time tending to her own 2 who are both older and the other 2 literally never open their mouths and just wait patiently to be feed changed etc.

I know we are no experts and its easy to judge from the outside looking in but they don't seem to realise that they spend all their time crying or having tantrums when in their company.

Is this a normal thing that all kids do with their parents or should I let her know that they only do this when they are at home and that they are just playing up for whatever reason and her DC's are a joy to have when they are not about?

I feel it would help their sanity if they realised this behaviour is not normal and that their kids can be so good elsewhere - its almost like the kid's have split personality's or something.

Or should we just keep our noses out an let them get on with it??

But you don't see what they're like when you aren't there so you can't really see the dynamic when it's just them and their parents.

As i've said previously we live v close so can hear and see them alot of the time when we are not there and they seem to do this most of the time regardless of whether we are there or not.

But by it's nature you cannot see the actual interaction between them if you're not there.

As Maryz said, that's what kids do.

And you asked, say something or keep your nose out, I'd keep your nose out. But if you say something, be prepared for it to come back and bite you on the arse in a few years like it did with my SIL

They are that used to seeing us I can't imagine that they behave any different when we aren't there as we really are v close.

If I did say something it would only be if I was asked as there are times she says "what am I going to do with them" type things but I don't think she actually wants an answer, its more a rhetorical question.

I would never take her aside tell her how I would do it, but we just can't understand how she can see how we can calm them and not want to try that method herself.

But I will continue to offer my support and look forward to her help when I have our LO as she is great with babies!

Reenzeen - that first sentence just shows why you don't get it - you are not their parents it isn't the same when you're there

OP FWIW I think you are right to consider these issues before you have your own lo.

People are right that children often cry more with their own parents - part of this is that they feel more secure with their mum and dad and that is a good thing. The other side is that a lot of children learn to manipulate their parents from a young age, due to the guilt which is delivered along with the placenta. Many of the parents I know feel guilty if their children cry, despite there being many reasons why children cry - true sadness/upset as well as anger, indignation etc. (you will learn to tell the difference)

From my own experience, with dcs age 2 and 4, you will still experience quite a bit of whining/crying at this age even if you take the view that crying just to get what you want should be ignored. However, a few years down the line, you will reap the benefit if you do not respond to inappropriate ways of getting attention. (We are finally getting there!) I don't know your SIL's approach of course, and tempting as it is, you can't say anything much to them no matter what you think, unless she asks your opinion or leaves you in charge of her dcs in which case I treat dcs the way I treat my own.

I guess if they are kicking off you can say "They do this for you because they know it makes you feel bad!" or something similar. But it's their problem. You will find that when your lo is born, initially any mummy friends will be just like you then as your dcs grow the differences in approaches to parenting will become obvious.

This is why I rarely start threads as I think everything gets twisted when its typed and it hard to get across personalities while posting, I'm a nice person who adores kids and wants to help out her SIL and have done so for many yrs and will continue to do so, but I feel i'm being made out to be a interfering busy body who is sneering at SIL that I know better.

Thanks for taking the time to reply everyone but I think i'll keep my issues to myself in future!

I think until you have kids 24/7 you can never fully understand just how hard and frustrating it can be... I thought I could do "better" and things would be different for me... its not...

I think you need to understand when you say that you or your husband can calm them down whilst having a tantrum - its not anything you are doing - its that the child is getting more attention, and very often a 'different' person being involved can help end it - its nothing you are 'doing' so please don't think it is...

I remember reading a very worthwhile statement - "Bad behaviour needs an audience" - and you getting involved in tantrums is certainly giving the child that audience and infact, not helping - as they will not get the correct signals...

I understand you want to 'help' - but its more than just getting the child to stop crying - thats too short term.

Good luck in years to come with your own - I guess we all have to learn the hard way - I did and am still learning day by day!!

Reenzeen, it does sound that you sil is struggling a bit if she is asking you to help with her dc when they tantrum etc. I think people have been a bit patronising towards you on this thread. It's one of those subjects on mn that people will just read the phrase 'I don't have dc' or 'i am pg with my first/this is my first dc' and automatically start with the 'oh just you wait' replies. I do agree that there's not a huge amount you can do practically but just lending an ear if she wants to moan about the little shits darlings will help . You do sound like a caring person.

Renzeen - don't take it too personally, you did ask and people have given their opinions.
I think you sound very caring and these kids have a lovely bond with you. Your SIL must see how you do things differently and yet will still choose her own way, as you will when you have your own.
Your SIL obviously values your help, but the advice being given is that you probably shouldn't actually vocalise your advice to your SIL - if she asks, then fine. Maryz advice is spot on, you can be a great ear and listen, but don't feel the need to try and 'solve' this for her.

I don't think as a visitor, no matter how regularly you visit, you can possibly know what most of their time is like. For all you know, they may play up when you are there - for whatever reason. Welcome to the world of parenting - unpredictable, embarrassing, a constant struggle to stay one step ahead. Please don't judge them.

Hahahahahahaha, you have a steep learning curve coming your way OP.

As I understand it, kids save their most annoying behaviour for those they trust 100%.

I think you should keep your mouth shut, at least until you have some actual experience under your belt.

Reezeen, I know you're around there a lot and her kids know you and are comfortable with you, but: I have one well behaved two year old. She is perfectly behaved in public, and very cooperative when she is with me, or with her Dad. On weekends when she's with both of us, she is much, much harder work. And of course we've both been there with her since birth, we both share childcare and work flexible hours so we have loads of one-on-one time. But on weekends, she's competing with her Dad for my attention, and with me for his, so she gets a bit harder. Likewise if my Mum drops in and we try and have a chat, she gets a lot more 'look at me, look at me'.

When you're over, your SIL and BIL will be talking to you as well as the kids, and doing things a bit differently. The kids WILL, honestly, be acting differently than they do once you've gone home.

You seem to be taking the credit for their good behaviour. Children let it all go at home coz they can and should be able to do as they feel at home. I consider it a sign of better parenting if a child can behave when they are out. How do you know how they behave when you are not there? Or do you have a webcam and watch every minute of every day. You are being judgemental! And you wont know whats hit you when you have a child! Chances are you could be a control freak to make them behave but they'll be little 5h1t5 when you're no there. Sorry to be mean, but you dont know till you're there yourself! X

I've changed my mind. Get it all out, tell her where shes going wrong. It'll make you feel better, you'll feel like you've made all the difference to her life, two little children will be better off for it, coz they'll see how silly they've been. Yep tell her........

Dont expect her to be there for you when it's tough for you! (and it will be!)

Conditional love leads to Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Which is really crippling in life. You only feel loved if you behave in a certain way. It really is healthy for a child to feel ok to do just as they like and still feel secure in their parents love.
(this just came into my head reading the other comments)
My mother wanted me to be perfect, so i feel i'm not loved unless everything i do is perfect. I live on my own now with my two DDs because i feel no one could really truly love me because i'm not perfect. I push people away because i feel judged and they might find out i'm not always good, i'm moody or tired or not excelling.
Please feel that it's ok for them to be like this, it wont last forever! Far far better for children to relax and be forgiven for everything and given a hug at the end of the day and a clean page to start over the next day. Everyone deserves a clean page everyday. The Almighty loves us whatever we do and forgives us when we are sorry. At what age do children know whats right and wrong? Certainly not at 2 and 4.
Unconditional love is the only way! Love is all you need!
MN seems harsh sometimes (what do i know, i'm a newby) but if you are honest in the facts you give you'll get honest and good advice in return. I've just about survived the teenager years, DD1 is 18, so i have a bit of parenting experience. She would be an utter mess if she wasnt loved unconditionally. I love her, but sometimes i dont love her behaviour, thats the difference.

This thread reminds me of my SIl and MIL. Before we had kids, my MIL was constantly running down SIL and her childrearing, saying things like 'they are so much better behaved when she's not there, they've been good as gold for me all day then started acting up as soon as she came home... she's making a rod for her own back, she gives in to their tantrums...' etc etc. DH and I nodded sagely, decided SIL must be a crap parent and we would do so much better with our own.

Fastforward a few years, now we have a 3yo and a 1yo, and what does MIL say to us on the rare occasions she looks after the kids? 'They are so much better behaved when you're not here...'

As everyone else has said, it's what they do! And often the relief of seeing a parent after being looked after by someone else (even a close family member) is enough to send them into meltdown.

Keep your nose out!

I'm sorry you feel like people are getting at you for not having your own children yet (congrats on pg ). Childminders and midwifes who dont have kids are good at their job because they have been training in that job and having children is a job.

If your SIL is a childminder then she should already know what different tecthnques there are without you telling her. With kids its all triel and error and even when you find something that woprks it might not work the week after.

My son had colic and cried for 3 months with out a break - children cry alot.

But the main thing that came to mind was my sister . When my mum and dad got married the lived with my grandpearents and then 18 months later my sister was born and she cried for 4 years stright - she was playing my mum up agenst eveyone else but mostly my gran . Que second sister = more crying. Then they moved to their own house 20 miles away from my gran and it was the first time my sister sleeped in 4 years. She just calmed down over night as there was noone to compete for attention as my second sister was so quite and my eldest sister relised she had an allie .

So to answer your question no dont say anything, i dont think it would help. Also its all a stage children go thru and they will not be having tantrums when they are 8 or 9. Also dont worry about it its not your problem.

You took the words out of my mouth, fuckmepinkandcallmerosie!

My albeit adorable and likeable 3 year old behaves in many ways I swore (judgingly) in the past that I would never tolerate. No whinging, minimal tantrums no meltdowns in the shops. And, yes, he does play up with me. My friends assume that he's always an easy child to look after and can't imagine us having any bad days. Your SIL probably wants your help to look after them so she can have a little break from their attention. Toddlers aren't very relaxing to be around all day. In that situation any well meaning advice, especially from someone who hasn't been there, can come across the wrong way.

When my DDs were a similar age, my Dsis and MIL told me my DDS were much better behaved while I was not there, and it didn't bother me in the slightest, even though I knew it to be 100% true! I just knew it meant my DDs felt more secure with me than with them, which is the way it is meant to be.

However, there is no way to know in advance how such comments might be taken. Parenting is a sensitive topic, and any hints that your parenting skills are found lacking are likely to cause upset/hard feeling. Also, it is easier to take such comments from immediate family than from in-laws.

Meanwhile, I'm sure your SIL appreciates your support. It must be nice for her to have somebody to give her a break from her two toddlers. And it is kind of you to do so.

I think people are being a little hard on you, OP. I have a friend whose LOs are very difficult when at home with their parents. My friend has freely admitted to me that she finds her toddlers hard and is willing to listen to my suggestions. I have a 7 month old who is driving me up the wall as she is trying to crawl and can't; I am happy to listen to my friend's advice. I say talk to your SIL but don't advise unless she asks for it.

Oh, and by the way, I had the patronising 'just you wait' comments on my first mumsnet post, and I survived! I was told to 'wait until she's teething'- she is, and yes, it's fine!!

Just an update ladies for those of you still interested. I went to 4yr old's end of yr concert for her finishing up at playschool last night. Once the concert part was over and we were having nibbles the 4yr old came over to us and cried and had a bit of a tantrum (unlike her when she's in public) SIL kept saying "she's just tired" etc and after about 15 mins of this when we were watching the rest of her class mates playing, she said something like 'how come none of the rest of the kids are crying or sitting on their mums knee's??' (there were at least another 30 children present)

She then said that her DD was always crying and she prob didn't realise how much she did it until she seen the rest of them happily playing. She asked me what I thought was wrong so I told her what I try to do with her to stop her crying or stop a tantrum coming on and why I though she went into the tantrums etc.

She asked me to help her to try and get them both to stop, I'm no expert by any means but at least she values my opinion and if she thinks I can help then I will do my very best because I'm sure I will be calling on her help when our LO is born!

Thats great

Please tell me what you do to stop them crying as i have a very grumpy 2 yo and would love to stop him crying.