what are the reasons for NO smacking?

[hermykne]

I AM CURIOUS to know, folling the other thread, as my dd is so bold at the moment nothing gets thru to her, even putting her in a time out room for 2/3mins, shes 3. she will keep on screaming and then hit something or push something over.
can last 40mins and no matter how you go over the matter with her when shes calm, she doesnt seem to learn anything,
and i suppose smacking will not make her understand either...
but what does smacking create or instill in behavourial patterns in yours opinions?

I was smacked at school. Would be LIVID if ds was. Think is entirely inappropriate and humiliating for child. Anyone wanting a description of corporal punishment in schools should read Boy by Roald Dahl, and the descriptions of some of the sadists allowed charge of children.

I am PERFECTLY CLEAR in the difference between a light tap and child abuse. I am not suggesting a 'light tap' is child abuse. But allowing smacking and allowing corporal punishment allows people who will use these as abuse more of a licence to practise the abuse.

I personally find a 'calm smack done after 2 warnings' scarier than a heat of the moment smack - I've had moments where had I not had a 'no smacking' policy I would have smacked ds - this morning when he declared he was a statue and wouldn't move to get dressed although we were already hugely late for school is a good example. But I couldn't calculate to hit my child. And I do think other sanctions work just as well, if not better. You have to find the right sanction for your child.

"99% of people vehemently opposed to smacking have never seen it used properly."

well if you are right bloss, that in itself would be reason to ban smacking - if 99% of the time it was done inappropriately or "too harshly" or whatever.

i too can see a difference between out-of-control "losing it" and controlled calm smacking - i just don't think either is ok. the first is unacceptable - as was said earlier, we are not allowed to just lose our tempers and whack other adults who piss us off - if we do we go to court - so we should be able to control ourselves with our kids. the second is perhaps even worse because it is cold and calculating - you are saying you have a right to hit them and hurt them. that can be terrifying for a child.

and i can also see a difference between smacking that hurts and smacking that doesn't. but they are both wrong imo because the message you are giving your kids is that it's ok to hit people, and it also shows a lack of respect - doing something you would never do to another adult.

about the pushing down/strapping in etc argument - yes sometimes you have to grab, pull or otherwise manhandle kids for their own safety. but let's think about a diabled adult or senile elderly person who needed help in that way. you might have to grab them out of the road, hold them down or similaer and it might hurt sometimes, unintentionally - but would you hit them? if you did it would undoubtedly be abuse, even if it hurt less. the point is, hitting is deliberate violence and sends a message about respect and dignity.

I don't really get this "light tap" tbh
why is a "light tap" effective? if you're jst trying to get the child's attention, then why the need to strike at all? wouldn't, say, raising your voice, speaking in a firm tone aand/or using the apppropriate words be better and more effective?
btw I also REALLY don't get this "it's the same as slapping some adult's hand if they try and tsake your last rolo..." er, no it really really isn't, is it? if someone, ANYONE, genuinely hit or tapped my hand as a deterrent/discipline (rather than playfully, say) I would be so BEYOND furious that my head would probably explode. way way out of order.

I saw a 4 year old get a smack in Next today. Not an outrageously hard smack, and the mother was cross but not in a blind rage.

That child was humiliated and it was a cringe-inducing sight.

I'm not converted by the light tap argument, and if it is such a light touch then it wouldn't be what is generally understood as a smack it is a tap like a tap on the shoulder which you do when you want to tell some one you don't know they've dropped something etc

I cannot see the situation where a smack would produce a result which wouldn't be achieved better with an alternative and i think you can be firm when necessary and not go down the route of absurd negotiation or reasoning which is not appropriate with small children either.

I don't know anyoine who has started smacking when they were formerly against it but i do know a lot of people who regret smacking and who won't continue using it.

Have read the whole thread and now too bloody knackered to post

magnolia give yourself a slap

plus a light tap for swearing

Again I think that age can be relevant. A light tap can be effective to indicate that something is out of bounds. But only to a toddler. There is a constant assumption on this thread that smacking must hurt in order to be effective, but at most one smacker has indicated that this is her view? I think that it really does depedn on the age of the children tbh.

I think the comparisons with how we should treat adults isn't always helpful - we're hoping not to have to discipline adults after all.

I don't think that anyone is trying to "convert" someone who is anti-smacking. But people are trying to put across the point that whilst this stance is fine for you and your children, they have a different view for them and their children. There are a number of anti-smackers who feel uneasy about smacking and what it might lead to for them. In which case then of course they should refrain from smacking.

There are numerous methods of discipline and I don't think that we should inhibit people's freedom to choose what works for them and their families.

no ladymuck, some of us are in gavour of a smacking ban and do think all smacking is wrong.

and if you think about it it is not ok to use whatever you like as long as it works for your family. cold showers work, as we have heard earlier on the thread. a violent beating might well "work" for a violent parent who wanted their kid to obey them. that doesn't mean it's right.

and we do discipline adults in our society - and we have ended physical punishment because it's inhumane.

sorry favour. typing while brestfeeding!

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Ok here goes............

I was smacked as a child. Rarely but it was still smacking. I love my mum and dad in the most unconditional way and have the utmost respect for them. I am really close to them and have never ever had a feeling of even disliking them (even as a child after having a smack)

I do believe there is a difference between smacking and hitting. I know others disagree and clump the whole tapping, smacking, hitting together but In my opinion there is a difference.

I have 4 girls and they have all had a smack. The youngets is 2.5 and has had a smack on the hand once. The twins are 6 and have rarely been smacked but there have been times when I have smacked. I don't feel the need to explain the reasons behind the smacks but It was my decision at the time and I do not regret it or cry myself to sleep over it.

The 10 year old has not been smacked for a few years and I agree with Kelly that there comes a time when other things work. But some of us obviously believe that it is a form of discipline that works for us and our children.

I will probably be flamed for this too but believe me from experience Sexual abuse has not a thing to do with smacking!!! Having a very 'gentle' relative abuse me has made me realise that there is no way to explain it or make any kind of reasons or connections. Sexual abuse is WRONG and inhumane but CANNOT be even thought of along the same lines as smacking!!!

Beatie, when I referred earlier to someone finding on bruises on their child when putting them into the car seat, it was not you I had in mind. The incident was a about a year ago (how time flies).

Laligo, I have no doubt as to your views, but clearly I do not feel that everyone should adhere to them. Of course there should be protection for children, but this can be provided short of a total ban.

And as many parents still find smacking an effective form of discipline I'm not yet sure that we're at the place as a society that you would like us to be. If smacking didn't work, but the naughty step did, then this would have been a much shorter debate!

I don't think it would, ladymuck, actually because the debate is not about whether one thing "works" and another thing doesn't. it is a lot more complicated than that with a very significant moral dimension. we don't run our interpersonal relationships according to what "works", we try to do what we think is right, I reckon

"it's the same as slapping some adult's hand if they try and tsake your last rolo"

if anyone did that to me I would be so cross I would rugby tackle them to the ground and pam their head in

snorting at your name enid but just stopping in time to say how bloody right you are about that
never mind about a light tap, DEATH would be the appropriate penatly for such a foolhardy action

mmmm it's not really that simple ladymuck. you don't agree with me; that's fine, but i can still believe people should be legally forbidden to hit childen, even if it does work. i also belive in abolishing the death penalty worldwide and i think speed limits should be enforced and blah blah whatever. society does impose limits on other people's behaviour, and i suspect you're quite happy about that when it comes to assault laws concerning adults - they protect you. we do not all run our own families however we like and nor should we. human rights and respect for the individual are important too.

I'm pretty sure that giving your kids a mild electric shock every time they did something you didn't like would also "work".

or even a fairly strong one

yes dh has suggested that

although he has also suggested putting them in a wicker cage in a rat infested river a la deerhunter so I don't take him too seriously

Can I just point out that I was never beaten or abused. Just 'smacked' as the posters describe it. And I bitterly resented it and love my parents much less because of it. It's not a risk I am prepared to take with my children.

i once had a flatmate who came on a bit strong and wanted us to be best mates. she thought is was fine to slap me in a "matey" way for example if i disagreed with her! i HATED it and got shot of her asap.

Yes, but again I don't think that the majority of people find a parent choosing to smack a child morally wrong.

Our moral perspective shifts over time and place, and of course it may shift again at some point in the future.

Regardless of that, my view here is that I think that as a society we need to be very careful about what we legislate, and why we legislate it. Whilst I'm not a Labour supporter, I do support their view that to criminalise smacking would be unreasonable and unsupportive of parents trying their hardest to raise their children.

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