Fucking hell!

[QuackQuackSqueak]

Having a bad morning and need a rant.

Why when you ask a 5yo to not jump on the bed as there are glasses of water on bedside cabinet and also light hangs low and is glass, would they say "no". Not really no I won't but more in a "no you're wrong" sort of voice. She does this all the time and I don't know where to go from there as it's not defiant exactly and it's not a question as to why it's dangerous which I could easily explain. I find it really weird and it drives me crazy. My DH has just resorted to "just do what you are told" or "just do what you are told when we say something is dangerous and we can talk about why afterwards". A year later though we still get that weird response. Not just about that but about lots of things.

Why when you tell said 5yo not to announce "I'm finished!" when they have had enough dinner or to repeat "I'm finished, I'm finished, I'm finished, I'm finished, I'm finished, I'm finished, I'm finished, I'm finished" until they get a response (usually angry by then), why would they keep doing it? Even when you explain at every meal time that it's because when they say "I'm finished" their little sibling stops eating too and little sibling doesn't eat enough at the moment. So you tell them not to do it and why every day or at least most days why would they keep doing it? Because they forget? That would seem likely as she really genuinely looks suprised when she gets told off (attention span of a knat!) Is it for attention? That would makes sense too as I don't think she gets as much one on one as she would like.

Sometimes I just don't get it! This parenting thing is so hard and she is such a tricky one!

she needs to learn how to self regulate her behavior and setting boundaries and consequences will generally be enough of a reminder alot of the time, however I would prepare for a battle if she is not used to such measures being followed through, you need do this every time untill you see results, then the occasional raised eyebrow will be enough, other times a melt down will be inevitable, but on the whole alot of the relentless demanding and defying will be regulated with a warning

I can understand how you feel (I feel much the same) BUT you are giving her too many explanations and you are repeating them. She KNOWS why she isn't to say 'I'm finished' she doesn't need it explaining each and everytime. You told her why she needed to stop bouncing on the bed - then she said 'No' (subtext you are wrong) by telling her to get down NOW you are not denying her an explanation, you are simply not repeating yourself until she is happy with the explanation. Do you see the difference?

DD asks for more milk - you say 'No, you need to eat more of your dinner first or you will drink too much milk and not have enough room for your dinner'.

DD - Can I have more milk now.

YOU: I have told you no, if you ask again x will happen.

Once again you don't need another explanation - she knows why she can't or when she can ask again (after she's eaten more dinner).

I used to work on a 3 strikes (not litteraly striking her ) and you are out principle with dd, when she was younger, she is now 5 and can fit not end of gobbing off in between the 3 strikes and it would infuriate me, now I work on one strike and you are out.

I have now moved from next room or stairs to up to your bedroom and she stays there untill she is either quite or I have a convenient moment to call her down.

Loads of good advice upthread about boundaries, not going into huge explanations etc.

I find when the dc's are continually asking questions, esp when they're repeating them all the time "why do you think?" often works well. 9 times out of 10 they know fine well why boy x put boy y's stickers in the bin or whatever.

re milk at dinners etc (if that's an ongoing thing) then a milk-jug on the table sorts that out pretty well I find. Ikea do nice cheap plastic ones with lids on that rarely spill.

and yes yes about her repeating back to show that she's heard and understood you.
I found out from dd's teacher what they do at listening / circle time. They have to sit on the floor woith legs crossed and arms folded. Now, if I have important information to impart, the kids get called through and sat down before I start speaking.

I learned a long time ago dd does not listen so I end up with higher expectations because I have said for instance.. dd put your socks on now. all she heard was socks, so they dont end up on her feet just somewhere out the drawer. so when I say why didnt you put sicks on...urgh you didnt tell me to grrrrrr. I got them for you, grrr.

so I always get her to repeat back, pisses her off no end but makes her listen more. some times she even says I know I know I listened Ill do it now..because she knows what is coming.

This is a really good thread. I'm learning some helpful techniques.

Thanks everyone.

My DS asks constant questions and I find it very annoying, but usually when I think about it it is something that he is upset about. The questions are kind of a code.

Maybe it's not that she really expects you to know why x put y's stickers in the bin. What she is actually saying is 'I'm upset that x put y's stickers in the bin and I don't know how to tell you and I don't know how to stop being upset'. Now I tend to say 'I don't think you wanted that to happen' and see where it goes from there.

As regards the jumping on the bed, because she has jumped on the bed and not knocked the drinks over, she can't understand why you think that they will fall over - they didn't. That's the difficulty for my DS. I say such and such might happen and he says 'but it didn't'.

That's true Tomhardy - they tell you not to say 'don't run in the road', but rather 'stay on the pavement' because they only register a bit of what you say.

again your post reminds me of some training I once had in communicating with SN adults and I thought at the time how useful some of the tequniques like you describe are very fitting when communicating with dcs.

also another thing I have used from the training is to do away with the unnecessary words put into sentences and requests or directions as the main point lost in translation.

an exp once said to me your mouth is moving but all Im hearing is blah blah blah..hence exp but gave me food for thought

TonHardy, yyy, 'vortex' is a terrific image here.

You need to avoid the 'maybes' that your parents gave you, Quack. I remember those and it used to drive me nuts too. Say yes or say no, and stick to your guns. You are not involved in a popularity contest here and you have a right to be listened to, but you have to make it easy for your child to hear what you really want to say, by simplifying the message, cutting out the excess verbiage, and making your true intentions and feelings clear.

Once you say yew or no, do not change your mind. Never say maybe. Do no think out loud. If you feel you made a mistake, say so afterwards, and say sorry if you think there are sore feelings (otherwise just learn quietly from your mistake), but carry through when you have made your statement.

And yes, addressing the feelings behind the repeated questions or the repeated complaints (about cake making for instance) will result in progress and processing. Your DD may also learn a new vocabulary this way and allow her to express or identify and deal with feelings more directly.

tomhardyismydh the whole over verbalising that you and some others have said makes sense, just got to retrain myself now.

This morning we had to go somewhere before school. I had gingerbread men in the car for when they got hungry (on way or once we got there). She knew we had the gingerbread men and asked if she could have one. I said "not right now"(we were all putting on shoes at the time), she asked when she could have one so I said they were for later (should have been more specific perhaps but I wasn't sure myself), she asked when and I can't remember what I said to that but I know I told her to stop asking. Once we got in the car (10 secs later) she said "have you made a decision yet?"

I couldn't even think and didn't know myself when they were going to have them. They were just in my bag as a back up as I thought we might be out all morning, but her constant asking just makes me want to scream at her to shut the fuck up! She is so persistant!

We had something similar with my DSD. It was all about attention, so I brought in the 'ask once' rule: I would give her an answer, and if she asked again I would tell her she had her answer already (I didn't repeat the answer, so that taught her to listen to the original answer) and not to ask again. If she asked again I would ignore her. If she asked again I would give her a warning. If she kept asking she would go on the naughty step for being disobedient.

We also try to plan something fun for the end of each day, but on the proviso that she behaves well. i.e. cake making before bed time. It's usually the last thing we feel like doing, but really works as an ongoing incentive and clearly demonstrates the consequences of her actions.

Maryz it's amazing how much of my life I used to spend anticipating blush. I had forgotten a lot of this, but I used to get so angry

What do you mean Maryz? Wasn't sure if you were talking about your own childhood or your children.

Yeah... My 5yo DD is exactly the same! No advice as such just a hand up for attendance in the stroppy 5yo club
i just keep chanting (in my head) it will pass it will pass it helps me come back with a calmer answer!

I've got one of these too. However, mine's also a whirlwind of exuberance and bursting with physical energy as well...

Ds is now 6 (April).

At the first parents' evening this year I was told he was interrupting all the time and he was rude. My response was that he was not allowed to interrupt at home (they clearly didn't believe me because he's an only child ). My father has been very helpful on this - we visit every now and then - and my father got fed up with ds interrupting (again) even though ds had been told not to - and told him in no uncertain terms that he should not. We also found bribery at Christmas worked - Ds had been spending so much time talking and asking questions that we often had to wait for ages for him to finish his meal - but he was given a coin if he managed it efficiently - he was allowed to speak - just a sensible amount with plenty of eating in between. At this age the coin doesn't even have to be particularly significant

We do normally explain things - once - but any repeated question is answered by 'I've told you the answer, what did I say'; if its a question about which we know nothing (as we weren't there for instance) we ask him what he thinks.

We do follow through following warnings - and we don't accept 'no' - unless its something like 'would you like x for pudding' - 'no' - right, up to bed then [screeming off] 'well you said no, therefore you're not hungry, so its bedtime.'

Re milk - I would have a jug of water on the table - I would not get up to get more milk - if she's thirsty she can drink water, if not she doesn't need more milk, she can eat her supper.

Maryz Yeah I think I decided very early that I would explain everything and would never promise or threaten anything I couldn't carry through.

The horrible bit about this is that my dd get so upset when we don't answer her questions (because she's asked too many times or because we don't understand). She gets instant tears. She so wants to be understood and I think probably is anticipating the anger that will come from us when she goes on and on but she does it anyway. I don't think she is trying to be annoying but just really wants the answer, wants to know everything and understand everything and wants to be understood.

The fallout of all this is that I don't spend enough time with her playing and things as it often becomes difficult as a lot of our conversations do. Like if we are playing and you don't do it how she is expecting she gets really upset and frustrated, she is quite controlling about play which makes us not want to do it. I really feel that is affects our relationship and that we don't spend enough time doing positive things together. She even got annoyed when we were watching a film together yesterday. She asked a question and I explained but she asked again and again and got that mix of 'scared of my reaction/needs to know the answer' look in her eyes which makes me so sad. It turned out that the question was a bit different to how she was asking it so she wasn't getting the right answer. I had to walk away though and then come back as it was getting so annoying. maybe I should of done the "well why do YOU think . . ." but she would probably say "I don't know mummy which is why I asked you!"

The last few days all that has happened is she asks things over and over and then gets told off. There has hardly been any nice time.

mistlethrush - I just bought a jug for this very purpose yesterday!