There was an attempted abduction in our village a couple of days ago, need some advice on giving a 'stranger danger' talk to the dcs.

[LadyDamarel]

We live in a small, very friendly village with virtually no crime bar the usual stupid teens and a very, very occasional burglary (as in there's been 2 in the last 4 years and one was done by a local lad) so everyone has a very relaxed attitude towards safety and security.

However, a couple of days ago 2 men tried to coax a teenage lad into their car in the centre of the village. Fortunately he had the sense to leg it and get help.

My dcs are 7, 5 and 4 and so far haven't heard about it on the playground, thankfully but I need to have the old stranger danger chat with them.

What's the best way of doing it 1) without worrying them - the 7yo esp has a very overactive imagination and 2) without confusing them?

It's a very friendly village, everyone says hello when we're out, people often chat to them in the shop/PO, etc and I don;t want them to think that they can't or shouldn't talk to people but equally, I don;t want them to think that it's okay to trust everyone.

A child being naturally reticent is fine. A parent telling a child they mustn't talk to strangers, abd wishing people wouldn't talk to their children is not fine.

My DCs are 4 and 6 and I have been reading 21st Century Boys by Sue Palmer, which stresses the importance of community being involved with children, and how all our worries over "stranger danger" have changed the way kids are brought up.

She recommends:

www.kidscape.org.uk/parents/paedophiles.shtml

Apologies if it's been posted previously, not read quite all the thread.

Nothing useful to add - but thought I'd share that when my friend and I were sitting in the park at the age of about 25, a man came up to us and asked if we'd like to come and see his puppies . We wondered if he may have got confused by the fact that I had my hair in two plaits.

We declined the invitation .

I too live in a village where everyone talks to everyone else, the dcs stop and have a chat to anyone walking by and they are on first name terms with the lady in the local bakery. Mine are a little younger at 4 and 2 so it has not yet come to letting them out by themselves but I know that in another year my elder one will most likely be going to the park by himself. At the moment if he is running ahead of me and dd I tend to find him half way up the road chatting to a neighbour who has stopped him to find out where I am .

I agree with other posters that it isn't so much talking to strangers that is the problem, after all my dcs see me talking to strangers all the time as I will merrily start up a conversation with a mum in the park who I have not seen before but it is going somewhere with anyone unless you have checked with mummy or daddy first. That is the message that I am trying to put accross to my dcs, to explain to them that it is important that I know where they are and who with so I don't worry and I know where to find them.

I thought abduction attempts were supposed to be rare. I'm shocked at the number of posters whose children have been approached.

Oh, I don't think there's anything wrong with naturally reticent children being naturally reticent. It makes me uncomfortable when parents insist small children who don't want to wave or say 'bye bye' have to do that - mainly much younger siblings of my child's friends. If a two year old doesn't want to wave, I don't want them to be made to on my behalf.

What I think is sad is parents telling children not to respond to adults who are being friendly, rather than children following their own natural inclinations. Ever since ds was born, I've encouraged him to be nice to people who are nice to him, whether that's an old lady in a shop smiling at him and talking to him or whoever. And I often smile at children when I'm out and about, even if I'm without ds - especially when they are bored in supermarket queues and I'm stood behind them.

"I thought abduction attempts were supposed to be rare. I'm shocked at the number of posters whose children have been approached."

Abduction attempts by strangers are incredibly rare. Abduction attempts by members of a child's family are slightly less rare.

Don't take on face value everything you read.

You need to find out more about the local lad being coaxed into the car, OP. I strongly suspect there's more to it than him being a potential random snatch victim. He owes money to them or their friends, he's mates with a lad who hassled their niece, something.

Two men "coaxing" a teenage boy into their car. Hmmmm. WOuld want to know a lot more before I said this was an attempted abduction.

This is the warning we got, via school, from the local police about a man in a nearby town apparently approaching children - no idea what he's been charged with. (Reading between the lines it seems to be aimed at secondary school age and ds is at a primary but the police obviously think it's worth telling all schools):

POLICE have arrested a man in connection with a series of suspicious incidents in Watford .

Since April 30th police have received a total of seven reports of a man acting suspiciously around the North Watford area.

The man, a 45 year old from Watford has been bailed until: 23rd May 2011 with strict bail conditions.

A dedicated team of officers assigned to the investigation continue to work on this operation, if anyone has any information which they believe could help, we would urge them to get in contact with police.

Detective Inspector Clare Smith, from Watford Local Crime Unit, who is leading the investigation said: ?Although a person has been arrested in connection with these incidents, we would always urge parents and children to continue to be vigilant.

?If anyone sees anything suspicious at all I would urge them to contact police immediately. We would encourage people to be careful and consider some simple personal safety advice, such as making sure you walk with friends and don't talk to or accept lifts from strangers, and always report any suspicious activity.?

People are being urged to contact Hertfordshire Constabulary if they witness any suspicious behaviour or if they have any information which could assist the investigation. Please call the non-emergency number 0845 3300 222 as soon as possible.

Advice to children about personal safety:

· Stay alert

· Ensure you are with someone rather than walk alone

· Stick to busy and well-lit areas

· Don?t speak to strangers

· Avoid short cuts through quiet, unlit, secluded or wooded areas and alleyways

· Make sure someone knows where you are going and tell them when you?ve arrived

· If you believe someone is following you, go to the nearest busy place, such as a petrol station

· Take a mobile phone with you if you have one.

ds's headmistress said they'd given the children a chat about personal safety, reminding them of the rules including not going off with anyone except the person who should be collecting them from school, btw.

So now they recommend that children are taught never to go anywhere or talk to someone they don't "know".

While I agree with the first I do think they should talk to strangers. The important thing is to assess the risk for themselves. I was rather taken aback when I asked a 12yr old (or around that age) for directions and she said 'I'm not allowed to talk to strangers'! I don't think a blanket ban like that is helpful and she came over as rather rude and unhelpful. I was on foot with a baby and toddler in tow-quite obviously the mother, and I just wanted to know if I was walking in the right direction! It would be more useful to make their own assessments.

I went by my mother's rules. You could talk- but not all strangers are nice and you never accept sweets or anything from them and you never go anywhere with them. If they say 'mummy asked me to collect you' she would never have asked anyone you didn't know and however tempting e.g. puppies you didn't go. I felt quite safe like that-and not as if every stranger was a danger (they are not)

I also think it is a good idea to get your DCs to question things-including you. Blind obedience is a dangerous thing.

Have only read 2/3 thread, sorry but in a hurry.

What would you say to a child who thinks he's more independant than he is? Ds is nearly 4, he's with me all of the time, but is coming to the age where he won't be (school etc)

I'm having lots of trouble with him wanting to wander off/ do things by himself. I can imagine him jumping at the chance to go off without me if asked I don't want to scare him, but nothing seems to go in...

When my DH was about 5 he was staying in a hotel in the Lake District it was in about 1971. His parents had left him in the hotel nursery and he was playing with another child. The other child's dad, not known to DH or his parents, showed up and was going to take his child into Keswick in the car, he asked DH if he wanted to come and DH said yes. They checked with the staff who said it was ok as his parents wouldn't be back until later. DH had a nice ride into Keswick and an ice cream before being brought back to the hotel and taken back to the nursery. When DH's parents came back they were told what had happened and were fine, nobody batted an eyelid.

How times have changed.

Own town has an attempted abduction every month or so. Most arent reported about in the press but the schools send home letters home when it happens and people post on Facebook to make others aware.

50% are where a child is grabbed and almost put into someones car.

There is no talking or interaction before it happens.

I am struggling with the thought of ever letting my dd's walk anywhere alone. My dp is starting to think the same way (he used to be very against 'wrapping them up in cotton wool') Its a sad world we live in

yeovalley, do you think maybe the Facebook thing has confused the issue? It's possible that it is artificially inflating the number of incidents - once something is posted online it goes round and round with more people re-posting it, so one occasion suddenly looks like many. And maybe one of the schools has an over-zealous member of staff who picks up Facebook warnings and puts them out as 'real' warnings without checking, or something?

Worth checking any warnings you have received on Facebook against your local police force's website - look under press releases.

(Unless you've got one serial and very prolific offender who the police are failing miserably to catch. Which I would like to doubt.)

Ooh, my first ever discussion of the day .

Seeker/bibidi - it was definitely a random thing, I've spoken to the lad's parents since it happened and there really was nothing behind it. I don't want to give too many identifying details but the lad is only 12/13 (Y8).

There's so much helpful info here, it's very useful to know what is likely to be most relevant and helpful for my dcs now, as well as when they get a bit older and have that bit of extra freedom.

"Own town has an attempted abduction every month or so"
Really sorry, yeovalley - but this has to be some sort of misunderstanding. There is no way that somebody could try to bundle a child into a car every single month in the same town and it not be reported nationally or taken seriously by the police. Honestly - it must be one of those urban myths that appear on Facebook all the time.

And the fact that 'most are not reported in the press' suggests they aren't actually happening. If there really was an attempted abduction, the local paper and TV would be covering it and issuing police warnings to the public. If there was one a month, the local paper would be campaigning, the local MP would be on the front page every week demanding action, and it'd be all over the nationals too.

Honestly, yeo, I think this is rumour and gossip spinning out of control. Look on your local police website and even call up your community police officers and ask them. It's very sad because it's scaring you and presumably other parents and stopping you letting your children have the tiny doses of freedom that they need in order to grow up safely. An 11yo who has never walked to school on their own before going up to secondary will be vulnerable because they won't have the road sense of someone who has. A 16yo who has always been ferried everywhere won't have the experience to tell the difference between a safe environment and one where something is wrong.

I do think it happens much more often than one thinks. A few months ago a teenage girl was walking home from school on a very busy road in Guildford. A man grabbed her from behind a wall and raped her. Of course it was in the local newspaper but these things rarely makes it in national newspapers.
When I was about 9 years old I was walking home from ballet and a man approached me in a car and asked me for directions (he was masturbating). I got a huge fright and ran home as fast as I could.

These things do happen.

We have been doing 'stranger danger' with our children for ages and I think they're now quite clued up.

Our family motto is "I don't go anywhere, with anyone, without checking with my mum". DD (7) who is allowed to play out with her friends, has a mobile phone in her pocket and so would not go with anyone (she knows or strangers) without checking with me first. I know, because she has refused to go back to a friends' house in the past (and the mum commented how responsible she is).

If approached by strangers, DD knows 'safe' houses that she can go to if someone approaches her, or something happens that she needs to ask an adult for. These are dotted around the estate where she is allowed to go.

If someone tries to grab her, she knows to shout 'No' at the top of her voice. Embarrassingly, she told her school teacher to bite anyone who tried to take her (I did say she could do anything to get away, including biting!). She also knows to shout 'This is not my mummy / daddy' if someone tries to take her. (We have practised this).

She knows not to go into bushes / secluded areas where she can't be seen.

She knows her boundaries and not to go past them - with anyone.

She knows I would never send someone else to go and get her (She has a phone, I'd phone her). If anyone tries to tell her that, she must ignore them, and go straight to a 'safe house' and phone me.

We have explained to DD that it is our job to keep her safe. I can only keep her safe if I know where she is. She knows that most people are nice but some are not. She knows that we can't always tell the difference between nice and nasty people (we have used tv characters as an example of this). She also knows that some children are taken and never seen again (she knows about Madeline McCann for example). She knows that she must not decide who is safe and who is not. That is my job, so if in doubt she must phone me / go to a safe house and call me / come home and check etc.

She also has a lot of freedom, to go out and play in the street. She knows that if she breaks the rules, she is grounded and she is not allowed out again. I think that is a big factor for her in wanting to be responsible.

PS We have told all this to our four year old too. She is too young to take much of it on board at the moment. But we've started instilling stranger danger and road safety in her too.

At what age do people generally begin to discuss this with their children? How do you begin? My son is only 16 months old.