There was an attempted abduction in our village a couple of days ago, need some advice on giving a 'stranger danger' talk to the dcs.

[LadyDamarel]

We live in a small, very friendly village with virtually no crime bar the usual stupid teens and a very, very occasional burglary (as in there's been 2 in the last 4 years and one was done by a local lad) so everyone has a very relaxed attitude towards safety and security.

However, a couple of days ago 2 men tried to coax a teenage lad into their car in the centre of the village. Fortunately he had the sense to leg it and get help.

My dcs are 7, 5 and 4 and so far haven't heard about it on the playground, thankfully but I need to have the old stranger danger chat with them.

What's the best way of doing it 1) without worrying them - the 7yo esp has a very overactive imagination and 2) without confusing them?

It's a very friendly village, everyone says hello when we're out, people often chat to them in the shop/PO, etc and I don;t want them to think that they can't or shouldn't talk to people but equally, I don;t want them to think that it's okay to trust everyone.

Precisely. DH grew up here and disappeared out of the door at 9am and came back for tea at 5pm from about Y6. Some of the stories he tells me make my toes curl at the thought of my 3 doing the same yet he and his friends all survived unscathed (bar the odd broken limb!).

We used to wander for miles! We were certainly out of sight of home aged 9 or 10, because we went off to make camps, Where I lived as a child had been bombed a lot in the war, so there were craters that cried out for kid attention.

I have been to a police safety briefing where we were told that they no longer recommend the 'stranger danger' technique, as too many children told them they knew what a stranger looked like - it was a man with a hat and a beard.
So now they recommend that children are taught never to go anywhere or talk to someone they don't "know". They understand much more clearly the difference between people they know and people they don't know. To an adult of course, that's exactly what a stranger is, but apparently it makes more sense to children that way.

can't remember where/when i saw it, but apparently one of the best ways to help children out of this kind of situation is to role play it/act it out, so a child is more familiar with how they might actually act/talk if this situation ever did arise.
many children find it hard to say no to or disagree with an adult, so need practice at saying loudly 'no, i don't know you' or 'no, i will not get in the car' etc and actually moving away from the adult, who might be talking quite nicely and being persuasive.
i understand some people might be a bit uncomfortable with this, as it might teach a child to be suspicious of everybody, but at least a child might be more prepared to handle it.

octavia - I gather there's still a problem with telling children not to go off with anyone they don't 'know' because a child's definition of 'know' can be someone they've seen you talk to once in the street - even if it was a stranger asking directions. (And most children who are harmed are harmed by someone they know, anyway.)

I've always explained to ds he must never go off with anyone unless dh or I have told him, ds, that's it's OK. Even if he knows them. If someone asks (when he's playing out, for instance) he must come home and tell me first. If someone says 'Mummy/Daddy says it's OK' that would mean they are trying to trick him and he must come and ask us/a teacher if he's at school.

Also use the 'if lost ask a Mummy who has children with her' line (not just someone who looks like a Mummy) and/or a policeman and/or someone behind the till in a shop - again, not someone who might be a shop assistant. He's known his own phone number and address since he was about three - we got him to repeat it parrot-fashion.

Oh, and as efes says, children often find it hard to disobey an adult, or argue with them - we spend all our time teaching them NOT to - so I've told ds if he's ever unsure or frightened that someone is trying to make him go with them, he is allowed to shout at the top of his voice, and run away, or bite and scratch if necessary. No idea whether he would if it really happened but at least he knows it's OK to not obey, to run or to fight.

We had a warning from the police via school that someone who has been approaching children has been given bail, so this is in my mind at the moment (person was in North Watford, btw).

Don't talk about strangers. Talk about not goig with anyone without telling mum or dad first.

A VERY important thing to tell them is that it's OK to say "no" to a grown up. A lot of children don;t know this. So something like the Libby Purves ":there are a very few baddies" and it's absolutely OK to say "NO" to a baddie. And nice people won't mind a bit if a child says no to them because they wlll understand.

So if somebody asks them to come and look at some puppies, and they make a fuss if the child says they need to ask mum first then that person is a baddie. A nice person would say "yes of course and bring mum to see them too"

Or wordst o that effect. Remebering all the time that the risk to children from strangers or not strangers is vanishingly small and the fear of it should not constrict their lives even a tiny bit.

Seeker glad you mentioned puppies. I knew about strangers offering sweets when I was a child, but kittens or puppies would have been a different matter.

Also don't dress them in clothes with their name on, as then they may be confused into thinking someone is not a stranger because they know the child's name.

I think there's a lot of good advice on this thread about ways of saying things etc. but I don't always agree with those who say to keep drumming it in to the DC's. ( Of course every parent has to decide what feels right for themselves and their kids ) Just think the fear of something happening could become a burden for them, when the risks are quite small, especially with some basic guidance and guidelines to remember. A balance to be struck on minimising the risks without spoiling the innocence of childhood and the trusting natures of our DC's.
Having said that I think the "it's OK to say no to grown-ups" one is really important, along with the self-defence attitude I hope mine learn from karate, that it's OK to defend yourself from people attacking you/ people who are not being kind. It's OK to run away too without any explanation if you feel uncomfortable or you just want to, especially if you don't know the person - or even if you do ?

I agree with the no clothes or anything obvious on them with their name.

PASSWORDS My mum had a system with us where we chose a word and we were not allowed to go with anyone we knew or didn't know unless they told us the password.
One occasion a parent/family friend had to pick me up from gymnastics and had to whisper the word to me before I would go with her. Another, a male colleague from her work needed to pick me up from school and take me to her work place. He had to tell me the password before I would get in the car. I knew that it was really important not to tell ANYONE the word and we changed it each time it was used. It was something memorable.

I have told my children that if they can't find us to either go to a till if in a shop or to stand still and not go looking for us. I modelled this with play people to show how we would be looking for each other and miss each other.

I like the idea of saying to go and approach a woman rather than wait to be approached.

Just off to bed but had to add my experience:

Years ago, when we lived in a city, we went to my DD's (then aged five) school summer fair. There were lots of people milling around in the school grounds and I was pushing my DS (two) in a buggy. Out of the corner of my eye, I noticed a tall man talking to my DD. My hackles rose instantly as I realised I didn't recognise him (although I didn't know all the parents, especially the dads, by any means). There was just something about him that made my skin crawl. I pushed the buggy towards him and he ran off. I asked my DD what he'd said to her. She replied: 'He asked if I'd like to go and see his puppy.' Horrified, I asked her what she'd replied. She said, 'I said yes.' I ran after him, but he was long gone. I called the police, who interviewed us, but nothing transpired.

I was in shock for days afterwards. The most frightening thing for me was that, when questioned, my DD said she didn't want to go with him, but she didn't want him to think she was rude, so she said she'd like to. She also told the police that the man had cold, staring eyes and she knew he was a bad man.

Haven't thought about this for a while. Writing it down has sent shivers down my spine.

I told mine that a grown up who is really in need of help or directions would never ask a child. They would always ask another adult. So an adult in a car or in the park or wherever who asks for their help (finding puppies or lost money etc., or for directions) is not to be trusted. I also told them they could be 'rude' and just walk away, didn't even have to say a word and don't owe adults any explanation of their reaction.

I also told them to try to remember their dad (exH) and what he would do if he was ever lost -- they all recalled how he would rather drive miles in circles instead of asking anyone or look at a map.

I always brought them up to ignore strangers who spoke to them in shops if they didn't feel like answering -- to trust their own feelings as to whether they would respond or not and not feel obliged to engage with every random person who made a remark on their hair or clothes or whatever. I never chided them for 'rudeness' on occasions like this. I have always thought it's really odd that many old people seem to expect an answer from a child who has never clapped eyes on them up until their random meeting in the supermarket. What planet do they live on?

We had a family password in case anyone told them they were sent by me to take them somewhere.

Two of the DDs have been approached by weirdos. Oldest DD took out her phone and dialed me right there on the spot and her stalker took off. Second DD was frozen to the spot but luckily was helped out by a delivery person who saw and heard the incident. The police said if you have a cameraphone, take a picture -- it will often scare someone away. Then run and call police asap.

Very good point about normal adults not asking children for help, mathanxiety.

I don't want to terrify ds or give him the impression the world is full of bad people who want to hurt him. So I always say 'most people are fine but there a very, very few who are dangerous to children'. He's been talking a lot about baddies recently - maybe from his schoolfriends, maybe from Doctor Who - and showing me his 'karate' moves (he doesn't actually do karate but lots of his friends do so I think they show each other at playtime).

He's about to turn eight and really has got too big to come into the ladies with me (and doesn't want to anyway) so in our town I let him go to the gents on his own. But I have to explain to him he can't do that at the mainline station in London - it's too big and too busy and - not that I say this - but weirdos are attracted to busy stations.

Thanks op for starting this thread, this is something i have been wondering about and still haven't really worked out how to approach with my dc (quite young tho, only 2&3 yrs). Am I thinking about this too soon or anyone have any advice what would work with this age?

Mathanxiety - drives me mad that strangers always say hello, complement dc etc and I really struggle with how to handle that. Often I find myself telling dc to say hello back (even tho I don't want to) just cos I feel so rude and embarrassed at the situation.

I think it's very sad that people are complaining about other people saying hello to small children. Children are part of a community - it is a good thing if other people are nice to them! You can teach them about not going off with anyone without your permission without making them behave in an ill-mannered fashion.

I've been doing this with my ds because he's about to start walking home from school alone (he's 9). He does judo so I've told him this is his 'verbal self-defence system.' There are two rules: never go anywhere with anyone unless the grown-up-in-charge knows and agrees. If the grown-up-in-charge isn't me, dh or his teacher, we'll tell him who it is (ie, Granny, mum of the person you're visiting etc.) And don't keep secrets from your parents. 'Going anywhere' includes 'going' places on the internet. We do lots of role-plays, which he loves, and concentrate on the more likely 'friend's big brother wants to show you a website but wants you to promise not to tell' / 'piano teacher's friend offers you a lift home' type scenario, though he likes the ones where a complete stranger insists you get in his car and you shout, run away and call 999. (Drama queen). He doesn't seem at all alarmed, just pleased to have another system to operate. And part of the game is spotting good people to ask if you get lost/ hurt yourself/ need some kind of help (parents with children, I say, reckoning I'd rather take the almost non-existent risk of him choosing the one male psycho pushing a pram than reinforce the idea that men aren't carers). Makes me feel better too.

SiriuslyBlack
The password strategy is advised against by the police for young children. Children under 6 - 8 cannot think through the secret word idea properly and are just as likely to say to the (highly unlikely) snatcher, 'but you havrn't saudctge word "sausages" so i mustn't come with you'

It sounds useful though if you did a couple of role plays Greythorne. How they are to ask the person for the password, for eg:

Adult: Your mum asked me to give you a lift home tonight.
Child: What is the password?

Unless adult answers immediately, no hesitation, with the correct word, no going with them. And then act out what the child would do if the adult DOESN'T know the word (running/shouting/whatever).

Edam - agreed it is a good thing when people are nice be that to child or adult, a smile or a passing hello. But I find it uncomfortable when people want to stop and engage in full conversation with us (sometimes its not even 'us' but just the little uns they seem to want to chat to).

Maybe I'm just quite a private person and ill at ease with these encounters but I think people should take their cues from body language and when dc (only 2&3) are shying away then its time to move on not keep asking questions of dc expecting an answer.

Also don't even get me started on people who think nothing of reaching out and stroking dc hair/cheek during these encounters!

I guess it would be helpful to also act out how the adult might try to get around the password, so that the child recognises that they actually don't know it (i.e. they're hardly likely to say 'i don't know sorry'):

• Your mum must have forgotten to tell me, she was in such a rush
• Don't be silly/naughty, and do what your mum says
• Ooooh I bet it's , since you love so much (followed by tickling). Basically joking untilit's been got around by forgetting about it

Why not make small talk with the parent who is with the small child though?

I think it makes it harder to teach children to listen to their instincts if they are encouraged to override their instincts or even override their fairly harmless whim out of concern for 'good manners'. A tough call for parents, because 99.9999% of people are nice and mean well. It's not going to ruin someone's day if a small child doesn't respond to their uninvited greeting, whereas a child conditioned to be polite and to value that over other considerations might have a really rotten day some time in the future out of fear of offending someone.

Greythorne, I agree about the password and the likelihood of it all going awry. We also came to an understanding that I would only send people they were familiar with and never someone they didn't know. The password was in case someone was insistent and told a convincing story of an accident for instance.

totally agree about uniform - mine has been mistaken (by adults and children!) for a vet, zookeeper, police and an ASDA worker!

I think clildren should talk to strangers lotads - when theri parent or carer is with them. Mine had ltos of lovely encounters with strangers in shops and buses, and ds still rememebrs the old man who gave him 50p for helping him get things off low shelves in the supermarket. (he did ask me if it was OK first). And I still have fond memories of another man who helped me deal with dd's first major public tantrum.
Interactions with adults outside their circle is massively important for children - and it's also massively important for the adults too.

It's awful when fear about a vanishingly small and avoidable risk puts even more constraints on children's lives.

loads or lots - not both!

Mine were all naturally reticent though and getting them to talk to a stranger would have meant overcoming their natural shyness, which is another can of worms all unto itself. I know children who will happily pipe up and chat with people who chat with them. I could never coax a word out of mine and with the stranger thing in mind I decided it was fine by me, and better not to try. They were fine with teachers and neighbours once they got to know them. They have got on pretty well with the give and take of school and clubs, etc., not the life and soul of the party any of them, but even the shyest has got better at dealing with whatever life throws at her by way of unexpected conversations.