Dad seeking advice...

[dadnew]

Hi,

I am a new dad (baby now nearly 7 weeks old) and a new member on mumsnet. I am not sure whether this is the right place to seek advice on this topic so please go easy on me!

My wife and I have been struggling with putting together a routine for the baby and I think it is taking a toll on our relationship. The baby wants to feed more or less constantly and sleeps much less than the books/forums usually state (9-10 hours vs general guideline of 14-16 hours). This is obviously resulting in a lack of sleep for my wife which I acknowledge very well.

However, I feel that I am under a constant barrage of snide remarks around how I am not being helpful enough. I try to do the chores around the house; as much as I possibly can after a full day at work. My wife is exclusively breastfeeding but I have told her that we should consider topping up with formula - will give her more sleep as well as me having an opportunity to give late night feed. She is very much against the idea of formula but is ok to express a bottle a day however, that still means she has to spend time expressing = less sleep.

She is forever in a grumpy mood and it gets even worse over the weekends. I try to put up with her unfavourable remarks most of the time but I feel that they are really getting to me now. Just the other day she made a comment "You are not the father I expected you to be" and I felt horrible, to say the least!

We love our baby to bits and this isn't a complaint about my wife either. Her side of the story may give a different perspective and I am not saying I am always right. I am sure I am doing something wrong too! The point is both of us need to do things differently for our sake as well for the baby, but I am not sure what.

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

DadNew

Forgot to say that neither of our parents are nearby (they live in different countries). Also, her mom passed away a few years ago so she doesn't really have that support network from family. We have good friends including the ones from ANC but both of us are reluctant to seek advice from them on this topic.

Overall, I don;t think my wife recognises that this is a problem that both of us need to address together! In her mind, I am probably not being a good enough dad and husband.

Ok. First, congratulations. Second, you might not want to hear this....

Does your wife recognise that this is a problem you need to address together, you ask...i'd imagine tbh that she doesnt even see a problem. From my own experience i would say that at the moment she really probably isn't thinking about it. She has other things to worry about. While this doesn't excuse snide remarks i think you might have to put yourself second, or better still third, in the scenario.

Ebf is hard work at the start but it will improve in the very near future. Try and look at the advantages (perhaps remind yourself why bf is so important.)

You are doing chores when you get back from work and that is great. But i think you might need to do more. Sorry. Your wife is doing baby stuff all hours of the night and day, maybe you need to put yourself out a bit more too? Prove you are a good husband and dad (i'm not doubting that you are but things become more black and white when you're exhausted and you might just have to work that bit harder to fall on the right side)

Hormones+anxiety+lack of sleep does make for grumpyness. I'm not excusing it but if you can rise above it it will get better.

Your wife is working on a really important new relationship. It's not a great time to try and work on the one she has with you too.

Send her for a long bath with a glass of wine.
Bring home flowers.
Take the baby out for a walk and leave her at home (in bed if poss)
Make her a packed lunch and insulated cup of tea before you leave the house.
And watch out for pnd.

Try not to take it personally, i very much doubt that it's really about you.

Congratulations dadnew! Welcome to the wonderful world of parenting :)

7 weeks old is still really, really little and EBF is really difficult and exhausting at that stage. Unfortunately, I think baby is a little young for you to be worrying about routine just yet but it will get easier soon.

All you can really do is be there for your wife and baby as much as possible. Make her a cup of tea, offer to change nappies etc don't make her ask for help (that's something that always bugged me, DH was always willing to do stuff but I had to ask!)

As for the snide remarks/moods, hormones have a LOT to answer for at this early stage. Just try to weather the storm as best you can but if it doesn't improve please look out for signs of PND and get your wife some help.

Good Luck!

I agree with the others, 7 weeks is still really early days. By all means use baby books etc as a guide, but don't beat yourself up if your baby isn't following the 'recommended' number of feeds/hours of sleep etc - as your baby hasn't read those books and will have his/her own ideas!

Sleep deprivation can do horrible things to people, and caring for a new baby all day (and a lot of the night) can be completely overwhelming.

Some practical ways that DH helped in the early days: taking the baby after a feed when he came home from work in the evening and pacing the living room with them in a sling so that I could get a few hours extra sleep before the night feeds started, taking the baby out for a walk at weekends so that I could nap (do you see a pattern emerging... ). Also things like making food for me v important.

And also bear in mind that you might not get thanks for any of this right now (sorry). But in retrospect your DW will realise your contribution I'm sure. And do watch out for PND, as this is a whole different ball game to a bit of baby blues.

oh yes, and forget about what the books say your baby "should" be doing. Especialy if it's GF or baby whisperer...as pink says, this is very early ds routine. It will all change soon anyway.

x post!

One very important thing is she has told you she is against giving formula and is working harder than you can ever imagine to make the best decision for your baby so DO NOT suggest that she gives formula ever again. I know you are trying to be helpful and you think you are being supportive but actually you are telling her you don't agree with her decision for what is best for the baby, I've been there and thats how i felt and it made me very very cross and those snide remarks you feel she making are nothing compared to feeling your husband doesn't support you in the hardest job in the world.

Other than that you really do have to work hard to support her right now, you still go to work see other people and have people to talk to. Have you tried making the tea when you get in? bringing her drinks when she's feeding? asking her if there is something she would like you to do for HER not the baby makesure she knows you want to do something for her wether its rubbing her feet, running her a bath or taking the baby to another room or for a walk so she can eat a meal without having to juggle a baby, listen to it cry or wait until she's starving because the baby need something. I remember the first meal I had in peace and quiet and I really appreciated it more than someone doing the chores or offering to feed my baby something I didn't want them to have.

Do you ever ask her how she is? not how the baby's been or when it was last changed or fed but actually how she is. I know that I always reply with how the children have been and forget about myself and it wasn't until DH heard all that and then said and how are you (it took weeks) that I realised that i maybe wasn't great and needed someone to listen, listen not talk.

After all that please believe me that three months from now things will have settled down, your wife will be feeling better and feeding will be very simple and you will look back and see that it is all just part of being sleep deprived and adjusting to the new relationships.

Congratulations!

Sleep deprivation and hormones can turn even the most placid and benign woman into a harpy!

She needs plenty of sleep, and help with both housework AND baby. If she is really exhausted, you may consider getting a cleaner if you can afford it? The cleaner can also change all bedding, etc, do ironing, and help with laundry.

It is not the baby you should try to get into a routine right now, but housework. Babies create insane amounts of washing.
Try to do grocery shopping online, shop for nappies and baby products online, Boots and Mothercare was a godsend when our sons were babies. Along with the cleaner. And the au pair when baby nr 2 came along. You see where this is heading?

Also, when you get home from work, dont just attack the housework and let her sit there with the baby. Take baby off her hands, after a full night, and day of baby care, she needs breathing space. She needs to be without responsibility for your baby for just a while so she can catch her breath and relax a little.

Congratulations from me too

I am that grumpy bitchy wife who makes snidey comments. I know I do it and I don't like doing it but sometimes it is out before I have thought it through.

The things my husband does to help that wind me up? Asking what I want doing instead of seeing it for himself. It is brilliant you are doing chores, despite what all the feminists want, many men donn't think it is part of their role. If she is feeding the baby, bring her a drink and a snack. Don't ask, just do it and don't make a fuss if she doesn't eat/drink it. Empty the washing machine and put it away. Plan the menus and write the shopping list so that if she wants to cook, your wife can do it without having to think about it.

My husband used to do bedtime with our first 2 every night once they were a bit older than your little one. It gave me 30minutes plus to go and do whatever.

Finally, I breast fed 3 and 4 exclusively and the first few weeks are exhausting, especially the evenings when they just wanted to feed and feed and feed. Try taking the baby for a walk if it is nice, again just to give your wife a little break.

Good luck

With an ebf baby who is feeding constantly your wife may not have time to do any chores. The baby doesn't really need a routine, she just needs to be fed. Your wife also needs to be fed, bf uses a lot of calories and a lot of fluid. Lots of men find this stage difficult because the woman gets so much more experience when the dad is back at work so the dad might feel they have to await instruction. However waiting to be told what to do makes us feel like nags or like we a parenting 2 children so use your initiative.

Things that I found helpful were DH settling the baby down at night after I had done a feed, DH changing nappies, particularly halfway through a feed, having snack foods so lunch doesn't have to be cooked, making dinner. What I really liked was someone taking the baby into another room for a little bit so I could have something to eat and watch TV in peace. When you are already exhausted (remember she won't have had a decent nights sleep towards the end of pregnancy so started off tired) its nice to relax and know that someone is there for the baby and you can drink your tea in the sure and certain knowledge that you are not about to be interrupted. Suggesting formula would have pissed me off enormously in those early days. I also found expressing harder than just feeding.

I am such a slow typer - what freddy said ^ one of my huge huge hates was having to eat every meal one handed with a grizzly baby attached to a boob!

And I agree with the formula thing too, it is a very difficult line to walk between supportive advice and undermining her - especially when you are sleep deprived and hormonal!

Congratulations dadnew. The previous posters have said most of what I was going to say.

I just want to add, my DH was wonderful when we were at this stage with our son. He did everything the PPs have recommended, and we still had nasty, snappy fights that we never had before. It really upset me at the time, but once we were all getting more sleep things improved immeasurably. Two years later we're almost the people we were pre-DS

Just remember the parents' mantra: It's just a phase - this too shall pass.

Congratulations on your new baby and well done for asking for advice and being willing to accept that you may need to change your tactics.

I have to agree with the poster above you said don't ever mention formula again. DP suggested formula once when dd was tiny and I was sobbing in pain and exhaustion and it just made me feel like a) he didn't think I was able to feed our baby and b) he didn't understand why I was breastfeeding in the first place. Nothing will destroy her faith in your relationship quicker than you repeatedly suggesting formula.

The early months with a newborn are utterly draining... for both parents but specifically for a mother, especially a mother who is being physically drained by constant feeding too. It does get easier as the baby gets older and the best thing you can do for her in these stages is just give her space... many women find EBF makes them feel utterly 'touched out' and emotionally drained. Give her a break from the baby (without using the F word) without any expectation of an emotional or physical response. Don't run the baby straight back to her if it whinges, learn to sooth him/her by rocking, singing, dummy, whatever... just let her have a break without being on constant standby waiting for baby to cry and be dumped back on her.

Snide comments are horrible, and although there really is no excuse it's hard to get across how emotionally exhausted a tiny baby can leave you and unfortunately the easiest and most accessible target for that frustration and anger is the father. She doesn't mean it... her subconscious just wants you to suffer too as she's suffering (at least that's why I was a bitch when we had tiny ones )

I was probably that snappy person when DS was born and the best thing that my DP did was just take a few days off work and spend them with me- it would have been when DS was about 6 weeks old. My whole world had changed and I'd gone from being being able to do what I wanted to being bound to this not sleeping, constantly feeding, constantly crying thing. I was struggling to eat properly because I was so tired and was feeling very resentful of DP as he still got to go to work which represented normality for me. He asked me what I wanted to do while he was off and the answer was not, surprisingly, sleep but just to leave the house and feel like an adult. We went for a day trip and I felt so much better from then on because I had spent a day feeling (relatively) normal.

Other things that can help are not obsessing about what your baby should be doing and do what feels right rather than what a book says. Please don't mention formula or that you want to do a night feed if she has said that she wants to bf- it can put more pressure on her and make her feel that you think she is doing it "wrong". I know that isn't your intention but that is how she can feel. There are tonnes of other things you can do from cooking meals, changing, rocking and bathing the baby. DP used to send me to bed at 7pm and cuddle DS for as long as possible to I could get a few hours kip between feeds. For DD we bought a battery powered swinging chair which was ace as I got to eat meals without holding a baby!

It does get better, for both you and her (we are about to have our 3rd so those horrible early days haven't put either of us off)

Breastfeeding will get easier soon, so just hang in there. Its fine to let her know you'd be ok to give formula but it really is up to her, she knows your view so I'd drop it now. It gets so much quicker, its worth it, nevermind the other benefits.

If you can ignore any remarks and do the above, getting snacks, be on baby duty so she can zone out for a few mins etc, you will be supporting her. It takes a lot out of you emotionally as well as physically to be so responsible for a vulnerable new little person.

Tell her she is doing a good job!

Thank you all. There are a couple of things in there that I wouldn?t have liked to hear but I asked for help in the first place?so I deserve them.

To clarify - we have a once-a-week cleaner, I take the baby out for walk or at least get him off her in the evenings and cook dinner (or at least get dinner) most days of the week. I understand that I could do more; without her asking about it. And that is what I will try more of going forward. A couple of you have made a very good point about ebf and how my suggestion on formula, even though with good intention, could be perceived as undermining her decision. I take that onboard and will not bring it up again.

Nevertheless, once in a while it would be good to hear a word of thanks or a kiss or at least to know that I am not a horrible dad :( Or maybe, it is just my lack of sleep talking!

I love her a lot and can?t imagine a life without her so will just have to suck it and see :)

Thank you once again for the reality check!

DadNew

Congratulations dadnew! Welcome to mumsnet too.

I think you're fantastic for posting and asking for advice, that's a great start. I'm going to echo everything everyone's said already, except to add one thing: at 7 weeks old you're getting used to life with the new baby. You're back at work and your routine is getting back to normal. You may be tired from the baby crying in the night, but you're starting to adjust.

Now put yourself in your partner's position. Her body's still getting over the birth, it's gearing up every day to provide more and more milk as your DS grows. She's coping with having to look after someone else for 24 hours a day, for the first time ever, and having to get used to feeling 'pinned-down' to the sofa for much of the day while she feeds. ... and all this plus disturbed nights too.

You've adjusted to the new arrival. Your wife is still going through it and it will be a few weeks yet before she starts to be able to lift her head and look around a bit. For the first couple of months she's going to be devoted to the baby, and that's how it should be.

You sound as though you're trying really hard. Keep going! There's a reason why people say the first few months are tough!

PS she knows what a great dad you are. She's just more exhausted and more riddled with hormones than she's ever been before. It gets better and better and better you'll see.

don't forget the drink and snack when she's BFing too!

(that would be moy most important thing)

but not tea - it might be a refreshing drink, but juice is better with a snack. :)

If dp had handed me juice whilst I was bf-ing I'd have thrown it at him. Even the SCBU nurses were sensible enough to know tea and coffee are good for the soul as well as being hydrating

Hi and congratulations dadnew. Just to add to the ff remarks and your observations about how little (according to the books ) your baby is sleeping.

IF you are pointing out the lack of baby sleeping AND suggesting that baby has a ff every so often, you are telling your DP that she is not doing a good enough job. You don't see it as that, you don't mean it as that, but that is what she will hear, especially as this is her first baby and she doesn't seem to have a particularly good ,experienced female support network.

She's tired, she went into the birth tired, (no-one gets proper sleep in the last few weeks of pregnancy), her hormones are all over the place still and her DP apparently thinks she's not very good in her new role and you wonder why she is snappy? Seriously? Do you ever tell her what a brilliant job she is doing? Do you ever tell her that she's a wonderful wife and mother? Ever kiss her and tell her you're the proudest man on the planet? But you want a kiss and an acknowledgement that you are a good partner/dad?

On the plus side, you are concerned and trying to improve the situation. You have had the courage to post here and I salute you for it.

Give it time, it will get better. In the meantime, do things without being asked. Do things for HER as well as for the baby. Tell her she is wonderful, and mean it! Good luck!

And whatever you do, don't leave the remote control out of her reach when you leave the room. Especially when Bargain Hunt is about to come on.

Ok, sorry. Getting silly now.

I'm sure your wife really appreciates everything you're doing. She's just stuck in that baby bubble at the moment.