Dad seeking advice...

[dadnew]

Hi,

I am a new dad (baby now nearly 7 weeks old) and a new member on mumsnet. I am not sure whether this is the right place to seek advice on this topic so please go easy on me!

My wife and I have been struggling with putting together a routine for the baby and I think it is taking a toll on our relationship. The baby wants to feed more or less constantly and sleeps much less than the books/forums usually state (9-10 hours vs general guideline of 14-16 hours). This is obviously resulting in a lack of sleep for my wife which I acknowledge very well.

However, I feel that I am under a constant barrage of snide remarks around how I am not being helpful enough. I try to do the chores around the house; as much as I possibly can after a full day at work. My wife is exclusively breastfeeding but I have told her that we should consider topping up with formula - will give her more sleep as well as me having an opportunity to give late night feed. She is very much against the idea of formula but is ok to express a bottle a day however, that still means she has to spend time expressing = less sleep.

She is forever in a grumpy mood and it gets even worse over the weekends. I try to put up with her unfavourable remarks most of the time but I feel that they are really getting to me now. Just the other day she made a comment "You are not the father I expected you to be" and I felt horrible, to say the least!

We love our baby to bits and this isn't a complaint about my wife either. Her side of the story may give a different perspective and I am not saying I am always right. I am sure I am doing something wrong too! The point is both of us need to do things differently for our sake as well for the baby, but I am not sure what.

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

DadNew

Wow all the dads on here ( including you dadnew) sound like saints compared to my dh! It sounds like you already do, but try to help with your BABY as much as possible, not just with the housework etc. Dh cooked for the first time ever when ds was born and would do any jobs rather than actually looking after ds! I don't think he realised he was doing it tbh but it made me wonder if he didn't like being a dad. Bathing your baby is a great idea especially as they get older as it gives you time to interact with them. Also try not to take her remarks personally and remember it will get better :)

Hi dadnew!

Firstly congratulations - I hope despite the stress and strain you are managing to enjoy being a Dad.

This time last year I was in basically the same situation as you. DD not letting us sleep, DW very isolated (we live in Madrid and have no family here). I feel for you, but be strong it will improve, though it may get worse before it gets better. The nadir was probably around 5 months but we're all very happy now.

We started off mix-feeding (on the orders of the hospital - DD was 4 weeks premature) but this caused problems with breastfeeding: DD had nipple confusion and it just added to the stress and caused DW to breakdown in tears on many an occasion. Honestly if your wife just wants to breastfeed this is probably best. You're very lucky that your baby is so keen on feeding!!

Is your DW on Mumsnet? It was a life saver for DW - really helped keep her sane. Buy her a laptop and get wireless!!

That's great that your doing the chores - as I think another poster said you will need to do more!! Don't expect your wife to do anything.

Cook in large batches and put portions in the freezer that your wife can just heat up for lunch.

As much as you can take your baby out of the house and give your wife some space to herself - it might let her catch up on some sleep. I used to put DD in a sling and go for a walk/do the shopping.

At nights I used to sit up with DD in another room til midnight, trying to let DW get 2/3 hours interrupted sleep - DW said this really helped.

Don't get stressed if your baby isn't doing what the doctor/book/forum says they should be doing - all babies are individuals and all have their own rhythm. As long as they're healthy, who cares....

good luck and well done for asking for advice - that takes courage

awww morebeta you sound fab.

dad new - congratualtions firstly, secondly, as others have suggested don't mention the formula - it will undermine her confidence & belief she can feed, let her choose if/when she wants to stop feeding.

ref the comments - please try not to take it personally it's more than likely she's exhausted from the feeding the no sleep, it will be very different to what she expected i'm sure and likewise I think a lot of us mums esp with our firsts had a view of it's our way or no way and we know what's best for our baby, dad's well, they're dads - but they don't know. (least my view was such, and v unfair to XH)

for the most part I do agree with morebeta do more around the house, when she's finished feeding the baby you can wind/change etc.

Also as much as you're both focused on the baby (rightly so) don't forget your own relationship as well - even if it's sitting down for a cup of tea together at this stage without the baby around once he's in bed.

sleep deprivation's a killer, it will get easier - but for now, chuck the books away and go with the flow. also not sure if anyone's mentioned it but babies have a growth spurt around now - they'll also have another HUGE one about 12-13 weeks - DS's went on for a week, was a nightmare, but ride the storm.

not sure i'd say she has PND tbh - a this stage just keep talking to each other keep helping out. (perhaps as well one day at the weekend you could get up with the baby, let her feed him in bed then take him out for a couple of hours so she's able to relax & have a lay in in peace?) - if you take a EMB then you could feed when out as well. will help bonding, & your wife could express when she would have usually given a feed? it might work, but you need o remember to be diplomatic when suggesing things.

I think men have a tendancy to see something broken and want to fix it - she won't want you to fix it she will want you to listen, to put up with her to give her a cuddle and pick up the slack without being told/asked. also keep telling her she's doing a grand job.

AW. I love mumsnet :)

everyone has said what I would have said had I got here sooner.

I have a 22 week old and we didn't really start a bedtime routine until around a month ago. It's well worth doing a bath, bed thing as it really frees up your evenings but 7 weeks is far too young really and babies do have a nack of just changing overnight so any routine you do start may go out the window. Don't obsess about it, I did at around 7 weeks but then got some good advice from here and allowed myself to chill out and go with the flow. Most of all I would say don't compare your baby or yourselves with other babies and parents - every baby is different.

I promise you if my husband had posted when our daughter was 7 wks he would have written exactly what you did! It sounds like you are doing a great job and the suggestions others have given are great. Whenever you can try to take the baby out of the house, I know that whenever I could hear her I just felt like I should be doing something and it was only when she was taken away for a bit that I really relaxed.

Please do keep an eye on your wife and make sure she sees her GP or health visitor regularly if she is struggling. I'm not saying your wife has post-natal depression but I did and it took me a long time to admit it, I was only diagnosed when my daughter was 14 weeks thanks to the help of a wonderful GP. New babies are very hard and the line between the normal struggles of new parents and PND can be very fine.

In a few weeks it will all be so much easier but I know at the time it can seem never-ending. They are totally worth it though!!

Don't ever suggest formula again.

Stop saying you do chores even though you're tired after your day's work.

You are both tired and yet the baby stuff has to be done. If you want the chores done too, then roll up your sleeves and do it, and be cheerful about it. And as others have said, don't ask what needs doing. Hoovering and tidying and cleaning the bathroom, laundry and putting clothes away, and probably a grocery shopping all need to be done. Don't expect her to fall at your feet praising you. This is what grown ups do.

Your resentfulness about it will get on your wife's nerves, and she will see your comments about topping up both as indications that (1) you have no confidence in her ability to satisfy your baby with her own milk and that (2) you think her most important role is your housekeeper and not her baby's mother.

Is this what you want to convey? If not then zip it when it comes to complaining about how much work is involved and formula.

I don't think you should be pouncing on the baby and insisting on taking her away from your wife. That can give the impression that you think she can't handle the baby and that she's stressed out. Instead, sit down together, with a cup of tea you've made her, and tell her what a fab job you think she's doing. She needs to know you are behind her all the way in her breastfeeding efforts.

And throw away the stupid books.

I read you thread yesterday and thought about it over night. I think that while parenting is hard on Mums, it is also hard on Dads - having a moan is great, as long as you don't moan to your wife and just get on with things afterwards.

We have a 12 week old and 5 weeks ago seems a very long time ago. Things do get easier, but even if they don't you just have to become better equipped with strategies to deal with them. Like you my DH was fantastic at helping out and as I spent 2 weeks in hospital and DD was born at 36 weeks he had to do everything to get ready for the baby.

My advice on top of everyone elses:

• one of the biggest fights we have had was because sometimes I felt DH was doing things because he had to, rather than because he wanted to. This might not have actually have been the case, but since we had that argument he has been much more proactive.

• does you wife have any family members or close older friends of the family who can tell her she is doing a good job? This is something hopefully her Mum would have done. When any woman who has raised her children tells me this it gives me a big boost.

-is she getting out and about? Fresh air and a cup of coffee makes the world of difference. What about her friends? If she isn't confident then work out how to help her become so.

• don't just talk about the baby at home. Find other topics of conversation, if you previously talked about work problems and she offered advice then include them, it is nice to feel useful.

• find a way to spend some time together. Go to a pub on a sunny afternoon for a quick drink, a cafe for a coffee or the park for a picnic.

Lastly, just to let you know that your post made me apologise to DH for and snappyness on my part!

Oh, and DD loves DH. Can't take her eyes off him when he is at home and gives him the biggest smiles!

Oh, forgot to add....

One book that really helped me understand what my wife was going through was "What mother's do" by Naomi Stadlen.

I seriously can't recommend it enough. It is NOT a how-to-be-a-parent book, but more an analysis by a leading academic of the emotional and physical stresses and sacrifices of being a mother. It explains exactly what mother's achieve even when it seems to them (and their partners) that they have done nothing all day.

Also, when I suggested taking your baby out and giving your wife some space, I meant do it with your wife's permission!! As mathanxiety said don't 'pounce' as this could give the wrong impression, although judging from what you've written I somehow doubt you would....

You know how you thought : "ooo a baby might bring us even closer as a couple and help pave over those little cracks."?

Notsomuch eh? Everyone's said everything about the baby stuff and the practical help you can give but I will also add that while it really feels that a newborn tests your relationship to its limits, as you slowly emerge from the fog you develop some kind of survivors' bond and certainly for me and DH, our relationship has got stronger as we've become more confident with dd and each other's parenting.

Most of what I wanted to say has been said already.

On a practical side dh did which I loved:
Made meals that could be eaten with one hand
Would do the 10 - 2 shift and only wake me if it was something he couldn't handle ( Bfeeding!), although he would bring the kids to me in bed and put them back when we were both asleep. It meant that for 4 hours each night I didn't have to lie awake wondering when they would wake up.
Learnt that the washing needed seperating out before being put in the washer.
Take the kids out so I could have an uninterupted shower.
Invited a local political canvasser into the house so I could take my aggression out on them - it was great to know that my dh thought I could still put a logical arguement together. It was BNP so fairly easy.... but still it was the thought that counted.
Worked out that if we put our baby monitor onto the same frequency as the one 3 doors up so that we knew that it was the same sleep deprived hell there as well.
Didn't complain when I would still get up to watch the early season Grand Prix - even though I would be even more grumpy the next day.
Worked out that if he put a stinky milk sodden Tshirt in the cot the wretches slept better.
Sat down for 10 minuutes when he got in - When he ran round tidying up as soon as he got it I felt he was saying this house is so messy I must tidy now before anything else. I felt he was judging me for not doing it. Illogical I know but hormones are weird.
Admitted that he was finding it hard as well - it helped to foster a "we are in this together" mind set

I had to arf at you ripping into the BNP canvasser and synchronising the baby monitor, Anifrangapani.....

Good luck, dadnew.
The advice above is spot on.

Remember: legions of parents and multitudes of marriages have made it through this sticky patch when the first baby explodes into your lives. It's never easy, but with oodles of patience and understanding plus a sprinkling of sense of humour (sometimes you have to laugh or else you'll cry!) everything will be fine. Then you'll look back in wonder at how quickly that phase passed.

Having a baby is a magical time. Yes, it's fraught with difficulties but it's extraordinary. Try and enjoy it too.

Thanks one again all. Helpful tips that are already proving to be handy. I have been trying a few of these things over the last couple of days (taking the baby out in the evenings, not mentioning formula again, sitting down with her when she is breastfeeding and having a cup of tea together, trying the late night feeds with expressed bottle etc). Still no success with tHe latter as DS refuses to take the bottle but we just have to persist! However, DW seems to have cut down on her remarks which gave a bit of breather and boosted my confidence. DW going out for yoga and picnic with friends has helped too. So thank you!

Most of you have been very kind and thank you so much for the thoughtful remarks including someone offering to hug me! Got me a bit moist there:)

On the other hand, it seems that at a few (a real minority) of you were taking out your own gripe with your partners on me as if vicariously punishing me for being a dad and asking for advice on this matter. Maybe you should be seeking advice instead. mathanxiety - I have not shown any resentfulness in doing house chores, maybe you should read the original post again!

Got me a bit moist there

Uh-oh, welling up at everything...now you know you're a true parent

fwiw am expecting my second and your posting has helped me to take a step back & think about DP this time around (didn't so much with XH) so thank you from the dads POV.

I guess dad have emotions to eh? lol :o keep at it - it's amazing how a tiny teeny little human disrupts things so much but believe me they're worth it.

Aw, you sound lovely & v much like my poor DH.

Our DC2 is 12wks & I have been a right cow to DH for the past 3 months.

bf is really hard in the 1st few months, & for me I fluctuate between really wanting to do it & really hating how claustrophobic it is. Even though I know DH is doing his best I do still resent the fact that his life hasn't changed - he doesn't have a knackered, aching, fat body (from pregnancy/childbirth), he can still skip about, get a break, leave the baby at home. Even the fact that he gets to go to work & 'forget' all about us for 8 hours makes me cross (stupid as he hates his job & would much rather be at home!).

The lack of sleep also makes me so, so angry. I can't be angry at the baby so poor DH gets the full force of how shitty I feel.

It's not rational but I can't help it - & worst of all (for DH, a fixer by nature), this can't be fixed. We just have to ride it out.

BUT it does and it will get better. I know this from DS1, and I also know how much easier my 12wk old is compared to when she was 7wks. The gaps between me shouting at DH are getting longer and ,longer, and I know that eventually the shouting will stop & we'll go back to normal.

I hope your wife does find some kind words for you between the nasty ones - I do still tell DH I love him, and when I'm not out of my mind with tiredness we do talk about how he feels. I'm sure your DW loves you, and all this will pass, I promise.

Good luck, you sound like a good dad.

'I try to do the chores around the house; as much as I possibly can after a full day at work.'

Dadnew, this comment indicates to me that there is a little bit of resentment that you are coming home after your full day at work and finding chores to be done. Your wife is putting in a full day and a full night of work every day too. If you like the house tidy and clean then you will have to get that sorted yourself if she is not able to get around to it while you're out at work.

I hope your annoyance at my post has not distracted you from the advice there. I'm not sure you should be persisting with the bottle feeding, even feeding expressed milk. You run the risk of reducing her milk supply if she is not doing the midnight to 2-3 am feedings. Feeding around the clock is what keeps the supply up. Disrupting supply by skipping a feeding can lead to a vicious circle of reduced supply and ultimately breastfeeding 'failure' which may crush your wife. Don't be tempted to tell her things -- 'My wife is exclusively breastfeeding but I have told her that we should consider topping up with formula - will give her more sleep as well as me having an opportunity to give late night feed. She is very much against the idea of formula but is ok to express a bottle a day however, that still means she has to spend time expressing = less sleep.' and don't pressure her about the feeding. Yes, sleep is important, but if your wife is totally committed to breastfeeding you will create a rift between the two of you by persisting with the alternative milk delivery system.

Nobody is going to enjoy a full night's sleep for a good while. You just have to accept that with a baby, and when you choose to breastfeed then you just have to accept what comes with that feeding around the clock. What is more important than returning to your former sleep patterns is giving your wife the feeling that you are cheerfully taking up whatever slack she leaves in other departments, needing no lists or reminders, and being very practical the meals that can be eaten with one hand for instance, while sitting on the couch, and sitting down for a while before launching into the housework when you come in as Anifrangapane says are so important. You can convey a lot without meaning to when it comes to a sleep deprived and anxious new mother. Your wife is not snapping at you just for the heck of it and in a vacuum. Little things get magnified when you're sleep deprived.

There is no vicarious taking out of anything here. I've been in your wife's shoes and hope you can appreciate that she isn't seeing the housework as priority number one right now, and while she is very, very tired, she is probably feeling resentment, and maybe a little undermined, at your efforts to solve the sleep problem by taking some of her feeding role away from her. You can play an incredibly important role by doing everything else.

Want to add, I do wish you both well, and congratulations