why do some parents not allow toy guns?

[baskingseals]

dd was playing with her cousins, who had a friend round. they were playing an elaborate army game with nerf guns. friend particularly enthusiastic, dd said he got on her nerves because he kept on shooting her. mum comes to collect friend and tells my sister that she doesn't allow guns at home - not judging my sister, just stating a fact.

do some parents think that by not allowing toy guns they are minimizing agression?
does it work ie if you don't allow toy guns are your children less aggressive?

BigCook - If it's bad to teach children that playing with killing machines is just good fun, then surely it's at least a little bit questionable to trivialise the act of caring for a baby by giving them a smiling lump of plastic that can be battered and dragged around.

It's questionable too to let them race cars around at speeds that would be incredibly dangerous if they were real-size, and mimic devastating crashes, as I certainly did with pleasure!

Plastic gun-wielding toddlers DON'T yield violent people obsessed with firearms. My entire anti-violence family is testament to that.

OldBoots

I hope it was witty. But it was also very serious.

I think there is something a bit wrong with a society that makes a children's toy out of something used as a lethal weapon by children, on other children, in that same society.

And THAT is the difference between swords and bows and arrows on the one hand, and guns on the other.

People are uncomfortable with toy guns for the same reason they are uncomfortable these days with chocolate cigarettes and children's conjuring tricks involving cigars; because they know instinctively that these are not things for children, and certainly not something that children should be growing up to regard as fun or casual.

Once upon a time, of course, toy swords and bows WERE training things; that was in an age when teenage boys were routinely trained to kill in battle. Similarly, in the USA, where it is normal for civilians to carry and use firearms, then you can see the point of getting kids comfortable with guns, as long as you accept that the real thing will put a significant number of them in an early grave.

If that's our goal, then guns make a good plaything; if it's not, then it's frankly a bit weird.

And all this "anti-boy" shit really annoys me. Girls will paly with guns too if you let them; the difference is that we don't encourage them to do so.

No guns in my house. I haven't spend hours thinking about it or whether toy swords are ok when guns are not. I grew up in Northern Ireland in the 1970s and I don't want my dcs to think guns are toys.

I have 3 boys. No guns is not an option - everything turns into one! I explain real ones are dangerous, only baddies have them or police or soldiers and just leave them to play amoungst themselves. DS mainly pretends to be getting baddies anyway, rather than being the baddy himself. He sees police with guns all the time - you can't pretend they don't exist.

They aren't always killing machines - clay pigeon shooting, paintballing... all good hand/eye coordination

"He sees police with guns all the time - you can't pretend they don't exist."

Where are you based?

Also, it is not a question of pretending they don't exist; it is a question of whether or not you think it is a suitable game.

Cigarettes exist but if my children started pretending to smoke I would think that was, on the whole, a negative thing and would do what I could to counter it.

i have no idea why i don't like ds (3½) to play guns. I just don't like it.
just trying to keep his innocence for as long as possible.

it's really not practical though, and i don't think anyone I know ever came to any harm psychologically through playing with guns.

he did get a water pistol last week, and calls it, a "kill thing" which is worse.
have no idea where he got that from

"They aren't always killing machines - clay pigeon shooting, paintballing..." Those are just grown ups playing with guns; you then have to decide whether it's for a valid reason (killing pigeons) or not (pretending to be soldiers and killing humans.) But it's still all about training to use a gun for killing.

"all good hand/eye coordination" - the same could be said of playing at cooking heroin and then injecting it into a vein in your foot or groin. How many would like to see their children learning through play with THAT game?

OK well I'll just highlight our own family contradictions. I do not and will not allow toy guns BUT we have:

• toy soldiers (ie toy story type 'bucket-of-soldiers'
• swords from pirate dressing up outfit
• Cheap light saber from Star Wars
• a couple of plastic pirate ships with cannons
• a very nice wooden toy castle, with knights and swords and shields
• a bow and arrow set together with a fancy dress knight outfit.

Spot the contraditionssss!

OP this might interest you

Ouch, just seen the price! Maybe could be ordered from the library.

Disclaimer: I haven't read it (but I will)

I don't encourage gun play but I don't ban it either.

Alot of DS's imaginative play at this stage is about being the hero and 'fighting the baddies', and he will pick up things and use them as guns, laser, etc.

I either try to gently direct the play another way without squashing his imagination, or I use the opportunities to draw attention to, or depending on his mood, discuss, the difference between toys/real things and imagination/real life, what makes someone a 'goodie' or a 'baddie', etc.

I do think that there are some differences between children that feed into this in how they express themselves and their imagination, which are related to gender.

My 3 boys don't have any guns as most of them make terrible, head splitting, annoying noises, but after seeing the boy next door with guns, just find bent sticks ('stick guns') or use their fingers and screech 'puhnyau, puhnyau' at the tops of their voices instead - equally annoying.

Ds is nearly 8. By choice he watches no television or films that have guns in (just not his thing). I have never bought him a toy gun. His favourite birthday present last year was a Nerf gun that a friend bought him.

I was surprised by the present at the time but did nothing to stop him playing with it. It has provided a useful way to discuss violence and what might and might not be appropriate towards other people. I cannot bring him up in a world without violence and I would prefer that he learns about it now and has a chance to work out how to deal with it and the appropriate way of dealing with any aggressive feelings he has. If he never encountered toy guns, I'm not sure that we would have had the same chance to discuss things in the same way.

My dd could shoot and do laser noises from 18 months because she learnt it from ds. He learnt it at preschool - i do not show him violent tv. But generally, the children who are playing shooting are boys. The type of play that boys like is seen as a problem. Behavior that is associated with boys is seen as troublesome. There is research that shows that nursery staff prefer little girls and treat them more kindly. So yes, I would say that this is anti-boy. I consider myself a feminist and would happily discuss it on the feminism page.

I'm not sure if the sexualization of girls is equivalent. I will think about that. I think in the same way that I dont buy guns, I wouldn't buy inappropriate clothing.

I wonder if the people who prohibit gunplay never watch an action or fantasy movie? Or read an exciting book? It seems to me that children's play is an equivalent (better,even) type of escape into another world, an experimentation with a different way of being that is more exciting and empowered.

hmmm... I can't explain why, but I just don't see toy guns the same as those candy cigarettes or simulating something like heroin etc.Maybe because of the "army culture" (??) of this country - we used to have national service and all that.... I can't explain it, am too tired

Playing with a plastic gun when young will not turn you into a psychopath. Surely. Otherwise most of us are surrounded with potential killers and even married to them.
Seriously though, it's the stuff of cowboys and Indians. It's part of play. Children know well the difference between what is real and what's not. I played with a fake gun when I was a child (I was one of Charlie's angels!) and I used it mainly to arrest baddies, not to rob anyone.
You can be really aggressive without using a toy gun.

"It's part of play." Indeed it is.

Once again - all animals, including humans, play to develop adult skills in environments where the risks of failure are low. That is essentially what play is, and why so much of it is imitative, especially in young children.

So the question then is, are you happy with the skills your child is practising? It's very true, for example, that some gun play could be seen as training for adult life, in very "pro-gun" cultures. That's fine, as long as you are happy with the outcome of that - i.e. your child is literally practising, not just the techniques, but the emotions and attitudes that surround the use of firearms. Such play tends to be responsible and based around respect of the weapon. This is the same as children in the Middle Ages being given a toy sword, or children today being given a doll; they are rehearsing for a key part of their future adult life.

Some gun play, on the other hand, is entirely removed from these responsibilities. Cowboys and Indians has been mentioned a lot here.

When most of us were growing up and playing cowboys and Indians, or cops and robbers, our chances of ever meeting someone who owned and used a real gun for anything other than hunting or poaching were slim indeed. The game, therefore, though a bit "wrong" when you think about it, didn't really matter. In the same way, playing with a light sabre is violent; but, as your chances of meeting a Jedi knight are slim, the line between fantasy and reality is pretty clear.

Now that, in some parts of the country, children own guns and use them on other children; and now that, even in the UK, the sight of police carrying firearms is much more common; I think the stakes are a bit higher, personally.

Will be screwed if I ever bump into a Jedi. My guns skills practiced as an angel will be useless....damm!

I do not buy toy guns for my children.

If they make a toy gun, I do not ban it BUT I never facilitate or join in such play (I do join in with almost everything elkse).

I choose not to faciliitate violent play, but I do not make it glamourous by 'forbidding' it.

Seems to have worked so far. DS is 10 and takes out most of his aggression doing vast quantities of sport!

This may be a little late to add on but I have just come about this thread. I am doing some academic research on the 'benefits of allowing boys to play with toy weapons'.

Very interesting how most of you object to weapon play or would not allow it.

My perspective: I have one child who will happily kick a ball around all day and another that loves guns, soilders, war etc. Is this unhealthy? He is a loving, caring, sensitive and considerate child who thinks nothing of kissing and cuddling me at the school gate (he is 10), my footballer 8 year old will only allow me to kiss his head in public and shows none of the above qualities - quite the opposite!!

All the research suggest by allowing boys to play with toy weapons (if that's where their interests lie) will actually enhance their development and a child's play should never be undermined or under-estimated.

The argument that such role play can lead to aggression is unfounded (no research has ever found this), however, this said I still remain on the fence: I allow my child to play with toy weapons, but have not incorporated them into my pre-school (regardless of government recommendations). Why? I think it is because 'I hear you' - You don't wish to encourage weapon play for your children.

Thanks to everyone who posted on this interesting debate! Very informative. x

the way i look at it is that they only "want" to play with weapons because they have seen weapons elsewhere, or been told about them by adults/older children

a child who has not watched weapon related violence on television or seen guns/weapons in real life is not going to act that out because he/she has no idea it exists

that child is not going to be at any disadvantage, and introducing guns simply so that they can copy adult behaviour is not going to enhance their development in any way.

what i'm saying is that gun play is NOT necessary. this isn't a developmental stage, or something a child needs to do. and telling your child why you do not like weapons or fighting is a reasonable thing IMO.... i dislike the whole "well other children do it" argument or "they'll be exposed to it sooner or later"
that's as may be, but i think it is my job as a parent to let them know that violent behaviour and using weapons is not something I like or will allow in my house

Does that include a ban on water pistols? Any films/cartoons featuring weapons e.g. star wars?

A ban on all lego or figures that feature weapons?

Does allowing children to play with dolls mean they are going to go and get pregnant at the first opportunity?

My ds is really into knights and castles and it has allowed a lot of learning through play. This cannot be avoided without reference to bows and arrows and swords.

He is a very gentle and sensitive wee boy and I do not believe I am damaging him in any way. He loves role playing with cooking and baby dolls as well.

He has never hit another child. I do not have toy guns in the house but he knows about them passively through play and other toys. I am sorry I will not make a huge issue out of the odd role playing game. We are a non-violent household, we don't smack and treat each other with respect

A child's play is not trivial and they learn primarily through it

I have explained to my ds that guns are violent and can kill.

In the same vain should we ban Barbie? It encourages an unrealistic ideal of female body type and beauty