Is this as unacceptable as I think it is?

[justlookatthatbooty]

Picking up my 2DC's from Nursery yesterday, getting their coats on, a 2 year old child threw up in the vicinity. Another not yet really talking child,maybe just about 2, waiting for his mother, curiously tottered over to take a look.
The only supervising adult present totally flipped and started yelling at the tottering child most agressively. It was totally over the top, he literally flipped out. It was shocking. The child wimpered and cried into the arms of another mother at which point the supervising adult (assistant of owner who had left early) pulled up a child's chair and slammed it down infront of the crying child and slapped the palm of his hand down on it with a massive smack and shouted with real rage "There, sit there, DON'T COME NEAR THE PUKE, GET AWAY".
It all unfolded in a really fast whirr of intimidation and I realised too late that I should have intervened and done something, but I didn't and there was much flurry with puke cleaning and crying children. I am absolutely cursing myself for not doing something... it just happenned so fast.
What to do now?

I talked it over with my partner and we decided I would talk to the owner at pick up time. So I checked that the kids were not alone with him there today and decided to talk to the owner of the nursery about it at pick up time but again she had left early.

I arrived to find my just turned 3 year old son had spent 5 hours sitting in his buggy (he was asleep when i brought him there and after some deliberation decided to let him sleep and let the owner help him out of his snow suit and buggy when he woke up).
He had peed himself and had spent god knows how long sitting in his buggy in his peed-in clothes.... he was still sitting there when i arrived to pick him up. I was aghast. He told me, he hadn't eaten anything and when i confronted the angry assistant from yesterday about it, he said that DS hadn't wanted to get out so they left him there. I appreciate that no-one applied physical force to him, but if there were not able to co-erce him out with raisins and nice things and cuddles and whatever, then surely they can't have been trying hard enough and surely they should have phoned me? Or am I overreacting? What's normal here? Help!
I feel like I can't trust 'angry man' after the outburst and am most upset to find that my son spent from 1030 til 3.00 (he did sleep til 1230) in his peed in clothes in the buggy in the lobby and no-one called me or checked if he had peed himself. No one called me to say he's been sitting there for more than 3 hours now, come and get him. Is my incredulous reaction unreasonable about either the angry episode or the whole day in the buggy?
I feel like immediately removing both children from the place and lodging a complaint. By the way, I'm not in the UK, but am very much in regulated territory when it comes to childcare. perspective anyone?
feeling most upset.

There's no reason to lose your adult connections or the children to lose their friends. Explain to the parents you're moving them but say you'd like the children to keep in touch and just set up play dates for the kids which then double up as a coffee date for yourself.

I'm sure there are equally enjoyable nurseries elsewhere.

annh ... couldnt' agree more about the general kinderopvang here. That's why it took me 2.5 years to find one that i liked and was prepared to use. The other thing is, that if I pull out of this one, I am signing myself up for stay at home mum 5 days a week full time as I live in a HUGELY oversubscribed city and the waiting list times are 2 years +. most people sign up before they are pregnant. i am still on the waiting list for 6 nurseries that I signed up for in early days of life with DS (3 years old). Still haven't been called. It's an absurd situation and also reflects the Dutch love of full time childcare (0800 - 1800 four or five days a week). I am swimming upstream in this culture when I try to argue that it is NOT UNHEALTHY for my children to spend lots of time with me a home, that they can still have friends and that I am not undervalueing myself by not having a job and a salary. Dutch women are convinced on this last one, to the extent, I feel that they don't look and they don't listen. Blind faith in childcare places and thats the end of it. I watch daily as seemingly sensible, well educated, intelligent women act naively and blindly when it comes to childcare. How did Robert M manage to get away with abusing 80+ children in nurseries over a 3 year period? Because people were not watching and listening.
So it took a long time to find our nursery and a long time to leave the kids there alone and yes, I'm watching and listening and the response of my in laws and another mother at the nursery is that I'm over reacting. That if I've 'given my feedback' that i've acted appropriately enough and now it's time to take the kids back there and stop depriving them of their social life and me of my freedom. These things in HOlland are about jumping through hoops. There is something seriously emotionally f*ed up about this culture and the encouragement of children and adults to moderate their emotion levels and "doe normaal" (act normal, or rather don't make a fuss) is palpable on a daily basis.
Might be time we as a family took a long break outside the country. FFS. Angry.

Talking freely like this makes me realise how angry I feel about this culture on this level. And it's fab on other levels. But relating annh to your blood boiling.

Just have to go and swear and curse and stamp around muttering....

But annh ALL Dutch people eat bread with something on it for lunch everyday, just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong. You can't put your kids in a foreign nursery and expect them to provide food which isn't the cultural norm.

I know this wasn't your only point and not relevant to the OP particularly, but just felt I had to point that out!

Have to laugh! It's true about the freakin endless bread thing. Love it cause it makes me laugh at how predictable it is and how the Dutch seem never to get bored of it and hate if because it's utterly boring and irritating if you're looking for a decent lunch bite. Anyway, there is plenty to be said for living here and I've frequently preferred living here to living in Britain but living as an expat does bring up considerable challenges and when something like this happens and everyone expects me to brush it under the carpet I feel angry with the tendency in this culture to white wash everything, or should I say, mediocre shade of grey wash.....to normalise everything and everyone.
But all said and done it's a funny eccentric weird little place that generally speaking, I enjoy living in. (slighly winced as I wrote that :)

I agree OP. And to be honest I miss the place. So let's not get started on giving birth there shall we......?

Something feels very very wrong about this scenario, a child not wanting to 'stray' from his buggy for 5 bloody hours, that speaks volumes to me. What the hell is going on in this establishment???

Neglect, intimidation, children not feeling safe.

Awful awful awful, please do not send your dear children back there.

I would be sick with anger if this had been my child.

So alligator... (indeed lol re birth in NL)

What's your take on my creche experience as outlined in my original post, given your experience here? Curious on your perspective

I think you've handled it well. You've confronted the issues sensibly without losing sight of the benefits of a less paranoid society (can't think of a better way to put that but you know what I mean).

If it were me I would try to move to another playgroup. You said they are oversubscribed where you are but would it be possible? Sorry if I've missed this in the thread, but do you have to leave the dcs there because you work? If you just want them to go to nursery but you don't work, what about a peuterspeelzaal? We had a great experience with that. There are usually several to choose from even in quite small towns. We used 2 in the time we were there and admittedly one was better than the other but they were both good.

I hope you get this sorted. Unless the owner is going to replace the angry man I don't think you're going to be happy sending your dcs back there.

As a complete aside there is a fab book called "the undutchables" you will find it hysterical. Observations of the dutch way of life from an english man.

I'm a former nursery nurse and this is totally unacceptable it's against everything your taught during your training.

A professional isn't allowed to smack children or shout at them in the a manner you've described we weren't even allowed to refer to the children as being naughty as it gave children the impression that they're bad not the behaviour (I understand the reasoning behind it but always thought it was going a step to far). Vomit should be cleaned up immediately as it is hazardous to health and no child should be left that long in a pushchair with wet clothes.

What your describing is neglect and you should take your children out of the nursery and report it to the equivelent of social services. I would write a letter of complaint rather than call the appropriate dept. The nursery should be inspected just on what you have said alone.

I know what it is like to be too shocked for words when something like this happens. When I was training I was placed in a private nursery and one of the children was smacked for wetting herself by the manager of the nursery I went to comfort the child who was crying and was told to leave her I wish now I had of said something about the incident when I returned to college but didn't feel it was my place being a first year student. Don't know what happened after that but one of the girls left and started working in a shop and another I came across later during my training working supply (more money but not guarenteed hours) Speaks for itself me thinks

Cargirl I have that book and it is hilarious. My favourite bit is the picture of the couple having sex and brushing their teeth at the same time. (I realise that sounds very weird to anyone who hasn't seen the book....)

I understand its a different culture and all but Im sorry I would scream blue murder if it were my children. If you do not have a choice but to send them back I would cause such a rumpus that they would realise it would be in their best interest to treat your child better - even if they have to write you off as being crazy foreign chick so be it!