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Is this as unacceptable as I think it is?

87 replies

justlookatthatbooty · 18/01/2011 21:46

Picking up my 2DC's from Nursery yesterday, getting their coats on, a 2 year old child threw up in the vicinity. Another not yet really talking child,maybe just about 2, waiting for his mother, curiously tottered over to take a look.
The only supervising adult present totally flipped and started yelling at the tottering child most agressively. It was totally over the top, he literally flipped out. It was shocking. The child wimpered and cried into the arms of another mother at which point the supervising adult (assistant of owner who had left early) pulled up a child's chair and slammed it down infront of the crying child and slapped the palm of his hand down on it with a massive smack and shouted with real rage "There, sit there, DON'T COME NEAR THE PUKE, GET AWAY".
It all unfolded in a really fast whirr of intimidation and I realised too late that I should have intervened and done something, but I didn't and there was much flurry with puke cleaning and crying children. I am absolutely cursing myself for not doing something... it just happenned so fast.
What to do now?

I talked it over with my partner and we decided I would talk to the owner at pick up time. So I checked that the kids were not alone with him there today and decided to talk to the owner of the nursery about it at pick up time but again she had left early.

I arrived to find my just turned 3 year old son had spent 5 hours sitting in his buggy (he was asleep when i brought him there and after some deliberation decided to let him sleep and let the owner help him out of his snow suit and buggy when he woke up).
He had peed himself and had spent god knows how long sitting in his buggy in his peed-in clothes.... he was still sitting there when i arrived to pick him up. I was aghast. He told me, he hadn't eaten anything and when i confronted the angry assistant from yesterday about it, he said that DS hadn't wanted to get out so they left him there. I appreciate that no-one applied physical force to him, but if there were not able to co-erce him out with raisins and nice things and cuddles and whatever, then surely they can't have been trying hard enough and surely they should have phoned me? Or am I overreacting? What's normal here? Help!
I feel like I can't trust 'angry man' after the outburst and am most upset to find that my son spent from 1030 til 3.00 (he did sleep til 1230) in his peed in clothes in the buggy in the lobby and no-one called me or checked if he had peed himself. No one called me to say he's been sitting there for more than 3 hours now, come and get him. Is my incredulous reaction unreasonable about either the angry episode or the whole day in the buggy?
I feel like immediately removing both children from the place and lodging a complaint. By the way, I'm not in the UK, but am very much in regulated territory when it comes to childcare. perspective anyone?
feeling most upset.

OP posts:
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Dansmommy · 18/01/2011 22:25

That should say 'losing one's temper is sort of understandable.

justlookatthatbooty · 18/01/2011 22:30

So let me get this absolutely straight...

DC refused to leave his buggy or his buggy's side. He refused to be helped out of his snow suit and he refused to eat.
Is it still neglect?
I just want to absolutely sure about what I'm doing because my blood is F*ING boiling and I'm going to go to the absolute hilt with this. My emotions are rising high and wild and I'm a childhood abuse victim and therefore need to check and double check with trusted others before going into the system with my insistance of neglectful abusive behaviour towards mine and others children.

OP posts:
pozzled · 18/01/2011 22:31

Agree with Dansmommy The other incident is also unacceptable but I find it easier to understand a sudden loss of temper- and the member of staff wanting an instant way to stop the child from going near the puke. The buggy incident seems to show a more callous attitude as it went on for longer IYSWIM.

Is the nursery having staffing problems at the moment? You say 'the only supervising adult present' about the first incident- how many children were present? This could partly explain both how stressed the man was and why they didn't care for your DS appropriately. Doesn't make it any better though, if this is a factor that in itself is a huge cause for concern.

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stealthsquiggle · 18/01/2011 22:32

Both incidents are unacceptable.

Assuming you have the option, I would keep them both out and talk to the owner.

Unless the owner is suitably horrified (genuinely) and takes action, I would not want my DC going back there and would be raising the whole thing with whoever regulates nurseries.

To put this is perspective - we once found a bite mark on DD when we hadn't been told anything about any incident. When asked, she cheerfully told us that "X bit me" - we questioned further and yes, X had been told off, etc - so I asked the nursery manager the next morning why DH wasn't told when he picked DD up.

She launched a full-on investigation, and cornered me later to explain what should have happened according to their processes, what had gone wrong (nursery worker was busy with parents of biter at the time DH picked up) and what she had done to make sure it couldn't happen again.

That is what a good nursery with good processes is like. This place sounds like a shambles, TBH. Maybe something has changed since your DC started there?

Oh, and check the regulations (if you can) - my understanding of UK regulations is that there should always be more than one carer with children (DD was often the last one there and there would always be at least 2 carers) - so how was 'angry man' in sole charge (leaving you short of witnesses)?

pozzled · 18/01/2011 22:34

"DC refused to leave his buggy or his buggy's side. He refused to be helped out of his snow suit and he refused to eat.
Is it still neglect?"

Yes because they are the adults in the situation. They had many different options to solve the problem including calling you, but instead they left him sitting there. And as I said earlier the fact that he didn't feel comfortable enough to come away from his buggy rings alarm bells for me.

stealthsquiggle · 18/01/2011 22:35

yes it's neglect, IMHO, because they should have noticed he was wet (and had the common sense to realise that he would be after that length of time), but more to the point they shouldn't leave a clearly upset child alone like that - as others have said, he should have been coaxed/bribed to get out, and if he was really inconsolable they should have called you.

HerBeX · 18/01/2011 22:38

I would tell all the other parents about both incidents as well.

Yes both incidents are as bad as you think they are.

Bloody hell.

NonnoMum · 18/01/2011 22:39

Even using the word "puke" is unacceptable in my opinion - the shouting/slapping - really bad,
the unchanged baby - v rough

but the worst thing might be that these incidents don't seem to concern them.

justlookatthatbooty · 18/01/2011 22:40

owner is busy setting up another nursery and darts off early when it's pick up time leaving angry man in sole charge of pick up time and lock up. But this is the only time that parents have to discuss issues with caregivers. Precisely my problem re the shouting incident.

There are the two same people, the owner and her angry man assistant there 5 days a week. If one of them is sick ,there is a fill in person.

Last week, i was left alone with 8 children( I refused to leave DC there until i felt happy that he was happy enough for me to leave). Angry man went out to get bread and I was taken aback but he was gone in a flash and I felt capable. he was only 15 mins but at one moment I felt afraid of.....what if there's an accident??? I gathered everyone together and read a story and then he was back but I told my partner that night I was surprised.

But normally there are two of them, just not always for opening and closing times.

OP posts:
LadyOfTheFlowers · 18/01/2011 22:43

That is awful - as everyone else has said, don't take your children back there.

IMO, if 'angry bloke' is happy to put his hand on a child in such an aggressive way, I would be concerned what might happen next.
There is no way I would take mine back after witnessing another child being so roughly treated.

Regards the buggy thing, I think they should have called. If it was DS as preschool I know they would ring me and tell me what was going on.

I would also think it should have occured to them that a child of that age having a kip is likely to have wet himself in his sleep and they should have checked him.

Just my thoughts, luckily never experienced anything along these lines.

Poor you and DS - you are right to be very upset. :(

stealthsquiggle · 18/01/2011 22:43

That system wouldn't even begin to pass any kind of standards in the UK - does that help to put it into perspective for you?

Dansmommy · 18/01/2011 22:45

Agree with nonnomum. Why aren't they grovelling?

WRT 'is it neglect?' ...I teach in a secondary school and if a 15 year old was refusing to leave his/her seat, had wet themselves and had not eaten I'd call parents long before 5 hours was up. In fact, I'd do it with an 18 year old 6th form student. To leave a 3 year old for this long is abusive.

piprabbit · 18/01/2011 22:46

You were left on your own to supervise the nursery??

Honestly - words fail me.

No way should they be setting up another nursery.

pozzled · 18/01/2011 22:47

"Last week, i was left alone with 8 children( I refused to leave DC there until i felt happy that he was happy enough for me to leave). Angry man went out to get bread and I was taken aback but he was gone in a flash and I felt capable. he was only 15 mins but at one moment I felt afraid of.....what if there's an accident??? I gathered everyone together and read a story and then he was back but I told my partner that night I was surprised."

I'm really struggling to believe this actually. The person in charge left 8 children with one of the (presumably unqualified) parents. And you still took your DC back there? And there's often only one adult in charge? I don't see how this is even possible if as you say you live in a country where childcare is well regulated. If it is true (sorry to doubt you, it just sounds too bad to be true) then I'd be calling the police, never mind Ofsted (or the equivalent).

mamatomany · 18/01/2011 22:50

Remove him without notice and DO NOT PAY THEM.
My 2 year old had a 40 minute time out at a Leapfrog nursery, they were banking on DH turning up early and sitting watching and timing the whole thing. They took us to court for the notice period fees and the judge told them to take a hike. I was going to pay them to be done with it am so glad we stood firm.

mamatomany · 18/01/2011 22:50

weren't banking on DH turning I meant

Dansmommy · 18/01/2011 22:51

mamatomany, why on earth did your DH allow this to go on for 40 minutes without intervening?

stealthsquiggle · 18/01/2011 22:51

OP - I don't think anyone is intending to have a go at you (just in case you are feeling got-at) - I can absolutely appreciate that when you are living away from "home" it must be hard to judge what is and isn't acceptable, especially if other parents seem to be fine with it.

However, cultural differences be damned - what you describe is not OK.

EricNorthmansMistress · 18/01/2011 22:52

I'm totally shocked and upset for you and your son. That's fucking awful. I wouldn't care if it meant I couldn't go to work until I sorted something out but no way would my child be going back. Your poor DS left in his buggy :( If my DS behaved like that his nursery would call me for sure. But they would make the utmost effort to entice him out and distract him. No fucking childcare provider should leave a child all alone like that :(

Remove your child immediately, make a formal complaint and report to whichever body regulates childcare providers. Poor boy :(

mamatomany · 18/01/2011 22:53

He couldn't quite believe that's what was happening at the time, she was sat outside the room and I think he kept thinking somebody would be out any moment, but it went on and on.
He said later of course he should have just picked her up after a few minutes but the whole thing was recorded on their own CCTV camera's.

ladyrose27 · 18/01/2011 22:54

I find the incidents you mention unacceptable but it also seems shocking that you were left in charge for 15 mins. I assume that you are not insured or 'qualified'(under the scope of ofsted) to have been even supervising these children and it was therefore in breach of regulations for you to be in sole charge. This nursery sounds extremely disorganised and uncaring, not to mention ill-run. The lack of care shown to these young vulnerable children is shocking.

LadyRose

pozzled · 18/01/2011 22:54

Stealth is right, I was very harsh in that last post, I'm sorry. I was just so taken aback by what you have said. It really is shockingly bad, if a UK nursery did the things you have described they would be closed immediately.

justlookatthatbooty · 18/01/2011 22:54

Thankyou
Thankyou
for all your input
this is very very helpful
i am so so angry
I am going to see this through to the absolute max
I feel i need to go and express my horror and anger to owner tomorrow, without the kids but don't wish to get into process of resolution with her because it's too late, too evident that it's not adequate care. There is certainly a language issue but I can just about manage, but probably she will skip out early again making the phone the only option and the language is really hard on the phone. Perhaps phone to set up a talking appointment? and then meet and talk and then report to authorities?
thanks so much everyone who had posted.

OP posts:
NonnoMum · 18/01/2011 22:55

and no - we are not having a go at you - we are just angry on your behalf.

Sorry if Britain seems crap sometimes. It's not all bad.

mamatomany · 18/01/2011 22:56

I should say she wasn't distressed or anything just sat singing and chatting to herself and luckily we'd not used the nursery for very long at the point so whilst other children may have been left like that for long periods we were hopeful that it was just the once with our child :(
I've only ever come across two decent nurseries in 10 years of parenting and living in three counties.