HVs and DMum say we need a routine, what do I do?

[FingonTheValiantReindeer]

DS is 9 weeks. He doesn't like being put down very much, although when fed, dry, warm and not too tired he's fine for a while. He's OK in his bouncy chair, but I worry about him being in it for too long.

We started out co-sleeping, then we started putting him in his Amby hammock, but he only goes in if he's already really asleep. And he only falls asleep on us, best on DH. We're back to co-sleeping again as he sleeps for longer if he's in with us.

Anyway, the HVs and Mum are saying that he needs a routine, and that he should be able to self-settle when we put him in his hammock (at the mo he stays with us in the living room until we got to bed and/or he's asleep). They also say that we need to put him in his hammock early in the evening 7/8ish and not have him with us til 11 as we currently do. TBH the reason we're up so late is because I prefer to feed him late and then get to sleep til 3ish, rather than be woken twice after I've gone to bed which is what happened before.

Despite the insistence on a routine they haven't told me how to do it, and I don't have any books with instructions for that. Can anyone help with ideas for what I should do please?

Also, the HVs told me off for pinking him up when he cries and said that he's manipulating me. Apparently I have to teach him to cope on his own and not give in to him, that way he'll learn to self-settle etc. This seems pretty harsh to me for a 9 week old, is it right? Will I have to do it to have a routine?

Thanks so much in advance, and sorry for the long OP.

bloody hell!

ignore, ignore, ignore!

you are doing it spot on.

far too early for a routine.

i like routine, but you work one out together as time passes. books are mainly shite imho.

he still thinks he is part of you.

loads of evidence to show that babies whose cries are responded too cry LESS, not more, than those who are left to it.

keep up the good work.

No, you really really don't need a routine for a 9 week old. Your HV is talking bollocks about manipulation. Sleep training is fine eventually but FFS not on a 9 week old.

My DS was still up with us at 11 till about 14/15 weeks, when he decided for himself he would prefer to go to bed at 7. This is the same with loads of babies - active in the evenings till at least 3mo old. You will just end up sitting in a darkened room for hours if you try and put him down now. Much better to watch telly and give your DH much needed cuddling time, imo.

My DS also didn't self settle until he was 8 months old. Again, he learnt to do it all by himself and wasn't 'harmed' by sleeping on chests / co-sleeping / in our room / not in the cot, etc. In fact, it's great as he will now sleep anywhere. We co-sleep occasionally and he happily goes back in his own cot the following night.

I also wouldn't worry about him being in his bouncy chair too long - he'll be happy for a while as long as he can watch you and that's what they do at this age - watch things and especially you.

I'm sure someone with more expertise will be along shortly but in my limited experience...

It is a good idea if they learn to self-settle but he's only 9 weeks old fgs! I don't think a strict routine is necessary at that stage, and besides it does sound like you have some kind of routine- just not the one your HV wants you to have. Most babies will find their own natural routine in their own time- you can gently nudge them in the right direction but you can't force it.

And yes, leaving a young baby crying is generally not a great idea. You should trust your own instincts on that one- as a parent you learn to recognise different types of cry and respond accordingly. A 9 week old is not capable of being "manipulative."

In short your HV is talking bollocks- ignore her- it sounds like you're finding your own way.

Your HV is a silly bitch for telling you that a 9 week old is manipulating you, I'm sorry but there is no other word for it.
He is crying because he wants you, and atm it is his only means of communicating.

DS used to stay downstairs with us in the evenings, his bedtime was 11ish when ours was because like you we preferred him to do his main chunk of sleep when we were sleeping too!

Are you and DH happy with the current situation? If you are then I just wouldn't discuss it with anyone and carry on as you are :) It is none of their business.

I hate it when people use the word "manipulate" in relation to a tiny baby. Their cry is their only way of communicating with you and why shouldn't they prefer to be with you than anywhere else? As Nicky says, he still inks he is part of you.

You and him will work out your own routine in your own time. Sounds like you a doing great as you are.

Crossed post with Ali

Ignore. Years ago it was the done thing to get into a routine with 4 hourly feeds etc, my mother advised this and with the first I followed this advice.

DS1 left to settle on own, routine imposed, result rather serious anxious child now 9 yrs old. I was beside myself and felt like a failure whenever the routine didn't work.

DS2 picked up and carried around, not left to cry, no four hourly feeds = calm mummy, result, very laid back, happy confident child aged 6.

Research has shown that babies and young children cry, need reassurance and if a child is ignored they are more likely to be anxious or depressed in later life. I wish I had followed my instincts, as you should yours, 1st baby or 5th, no difference, I suspect you know your baby better than anyone.

You don't need a routine - I never had one for ds. Apart from when he started to sleep longer in the evening, I would feed him to sleep upstairs around 7 so that became his bedtime. Coslept part time, milk feeds were always on demand as were naps.

And you know what ? He turned into a toddler who slept 7-7, totally bombproof sleeper anywhere

If you are happy, why change things ?

Ignore, ignore.

No 9-week old is manipulating you, if he is crying it is for a reason- and 'I need a cuddle and some human contact' is a perfectly valid reason for a small baby.

We used to do a bedtime routine for DD at that age, but we did it around 10.30pm- this seemed the best way of getting a longer block of sleep. She would sleep in the evening as well, but she had her longest stretch of sleep when we went to bed. Then we gradually brought the bedtime forward as she went longer between feeds.

I don't think it is quite the case that you will "end up sitting in a darkened room for hours if you try and put him down now" - we put our baby to bed at 7pm from 5 days old, and he has always gone to sleep on his own, quite happily. He slept from 10pm to 7am at 7 weeks and from 7-7 at 12 weeks, and naps during the day - but we were following a routine (baby whisperer/watered down CLB) and it worked for our baby. Don't feel pressurised into doing anything though Fingon, all babies are different - I am perfectly prepared for my next one to want to sleep on me 24/7! You are doing a fantastic job!

Your HV sounds nuts!

Why should you have a routine? If you're happy with how things are why change it?

Picking up a crying baby and soothing them to sleep is normal and natural behaviour.

I've never heard such nonsense in my life!

You are doing a great job responding to his needs.

DS2 was a limpet baby who now at 2 is the most confident, self sufficient toddler you could ever meet.

Keep doing what you're doing. You'll know when the time is right to steer him into a routine, but until then, enjoy it!

Phew, thanks all! Dh and I are happy as we are, just worried that we were doing it wrong somehow!

It's one of my bugbears when people tell me not to help him when he's crying. If he was a distressed adult, or even older child, everyone would think it was mean to ignore him, but for some reason people seem to think babies should be ignored. I was quite upset when they told me that.

Plus they prefaced everything with "It's your first baby is it, well..."

You do not need a routine yet! How could a 9 week old manipulate??? Idiot!

The one thing I would agree with though is taking your DS up to bed at around 7. This is a step in the right direction towards an earlier bedtime and there tends to be less stimulation upstairs. If you're not ready to go to sleep you could just hang out in your bed with him until you are.

Starting the bath-book-boob from 6.30 is the one thing that really helped me, but again if you're happy with the way things are there's no rush!

Carry on, you are doing wonderfully!

You are parenting your child in exactly the way he needs to be parented - by responding to his needs.

I know, know, know how it feels to have a baby that wants to co-sleep and be held all the time and be surrounded by people who think you should be able to put them down.

My DD1 needed constant holding and contact, she had no routine and it was hard work for a long time. My DD2 was a routine baby from birth, self settled, slept through early on and all the rest of it.

I would not change a THING about how I parented my DD1, I am proud that DH and I provided her with everything she needed - food, love and COMFORT.

You are doing the same, WELL DONE!!

I hate it when people think you can teach a baby something by leaving them to cry - what is making a baby distressed and anxious going to teach them?

At 9 months DS2 was doing this - he is now 3.6 and goes to sleep on his own in his own bed.
And FFS - 'manipulating' you Yes, his 9 week old little brain is working overtime to get round you and force you to cuddle him.
Babies need their mothers, close by at such a young age. If what you are doing works for you keep doing it.
This HV needs to get herself into the right century.
this is quite interesting re:leaving them to cry

don't listen to them, he's 9 weeks ffs!
if he cries it's because he needs comfort, a 9 week old isn't manipulative, that's insane!

Thanks all.

Ok, I may try bath and story earlier in the evening, just so he gets used to it, but we'll see how it goes about actually putting him in his hammock. Don't really fancy getting into bed several hours early myself, so it's hammock or nothing if it's early. I think DH loves all the cuddle time in the evening anyway :)

you will find your own routine in the end - no need to have it imposed on you.

if he's funny about being out down...well, it's hard to sy - but of you thnk he's still hungry carry on feeding - and if you think he's just tired give a minute for him to self-settle, and maybe he will. or pick him up if you want...

up to you!

Oh my goodness, that article is shocking, and sad :(

Sorry if it upset you, I just think it's interesting. WE're carry mammals. Our young are designed to be carried close to us and to feed little and often. These outdated HVs and MWs you hear about are just out of line IMO.
If a mum asks them for information on routines and how to get them into them then fair enough but in your situation you were fine, your way was working for you so 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'. She's just seeded a load of doubt in your mind rather than reassuring you.

I had no intention of leaving him to cry, I think it's awful, I was just interested in whether people thought it was necessary for a routine. But I hadn't realised it has such a bad effect on children, I just think it's sad for those who are left, and sadly it's the majority among my friends and relatives :(

:( I'm quite lucky thatmost of my friends (they are mainly LLL bods) parent in a similar fashion to me.

Imo it is whatever works for you.

I was effectively a single parent (DH is in the Navy and went to see before DS1 was 3 weeks old) and while everything went well (no PND etc), I just found that I needed a bit of time to myself. The whole day was devoted to the baby, which was great. But I wanted to be able to sit down, cook and eat my supper and watch telly for a couple of hours in the evening.

So at 3 weeks, I put him to bed at 7 O'clock. The routine went...bath at 6, bed at 7. It took about 3 days for him to get used to it.

DS1 has always been a very easy child, and sleeps brilliantly. We did the same with DS2, and it worked almost as well.

But like I said - whatever works for you.