HVs and DMum say we need a routine, what do I do?

[FingonTheValiantReindeer]

DS is 9 weeks. He doesn't like being put down very much, although when fed, dry, warm and not too tired he's fine for a while. He's OK in his bouncy chair, but I worry about him being in it for too long.

We started out co-sleeping, then we started putting him in his Amby hammock, but he only goes in if he's already really asleep. And he only falls asleep on us, best on DH. We're back to co-sleeping again as he sleeps for longer if he's in with us.

Anyway, the HVs and Mum are saying that he needs a routine, and that he should be able to self-settle when we put him in his hammock (at the mo he stays with us in the living room until we got to bed and/or he's asleep). They also say that we need to put him in his hammock early in the evening 7/8ish and not have him with us til 11 as we currently do. TBH the reason we're up so late is because I prefer to feed him late and then get to sleep til 3ish, rather than be woken twice after I've gone to bed which is what happened before.

Despite the insistence on a routine they haven't told me how to do it, and I don't have any books with instructions for that. Can anyone help with ideas for what I should do please?

Also, the HVs told me off for pinking him up when he cries and said that he's manipulating me. Apparently I have to teach him to cope on his own and not give in to him, that way he'll learn to self-settle etc. This seems pretty harsh to me for a 9 week old, is it right? Will I have to do it to have a routine?

Thanks so much in advance, and sorry for the long OP.

sea

A baby's wants and needs are the same thing. Outdated, damaging nonsense. Dd2 is 6 months and sleep is suddenly getting better. She has a bath and we attempt to settle her about 7.30. Some nights it works and some it doesn't but we're constantly asked what our secret is because she's so contented. Er - she's happy because she always gets what she needs as soon as she needs it.

Depends what you mean by routine. There is a world of difference between consistancy and gentle cues and a rigid aka gina ford routine.

A strict routine does not really work with bottlefeeding. However there are things you can do to help your baby learn to be civilised without tears.

For example when my children were little, they had a bath at 7pm. I would breastfeed them and then put them in a cot. If they did not fall asleep I used to lie my daughter on my chest and cuddle her until she was almost sleep, but NOT QUITE. We play relaxing music in the background.

My daughter had to be got up with me to get my son to school on time. She found her own pattern of naps that fitted around the family.

The No cry sleep solution by Elizabeth Pantsey is very good.

Health visitors all have different opinons. my health visitor is anti controlled crying.

We do all of this with our DD who is 11 weeks - keep her up with us until we go to bed, don't have any forced routine etc. And she is a way happier baby and we are way happier parents than with DS who we thought had to be in a routine.

DD has also just started sleeping through 11-7 (3 nights in a row!) which DS never managed until 6mo. So we're doing something right.

Do what makes you happy as a family not what HV and your DMum say.

having him with you till 11ish is a routine!

and the only thing different, ime, with a first or second baby is that, by the second, you learn to just nod and smile at the HV- and then just carry on doing whatever you're doing

Like mollycuddles too, we always get asked why our DD is so happy and content and hardly ever cries. Err, that would be because she hardly ever is left to get upset and all her needs are met?

So much happier this way than with DS which was torture for us all but we just thought we had to get him in a routine asap.

Almost all of my friends with children are French, with a couple of Americans - they think I'm a weirdo hippy who will learn... DNiece (French) was moved out of her parents bedroom at 5 weeks as her crying kept them awake. DH is under strict instructions never to complain to his family, as I know what their advice will be like.

The only friend who parents like me is Swedish, fortunately she's the one I see the most.

Molly we're always told that DS is "so good", "such a happy baby" and "so quiet" - then we're told we're very lucky. I prefer to think that we have at least a little bit to do with it :)

fedup - having DH come home and take over for a bit in the evening is bliss, and I know I'm lucky to be in this position. I don't think I could manage it by myself!

x-posted a lot there. Agree completely Meg.

SpringHeeledJack I learned to smile and nod at midwives very quickly, so I guess I'll just have to hone my skills for HVs as well :)

ds is also nine weeks and your post describes what we are doing at the minute. Its working for us and ds is happy. Am dreading seeing the in laws at christmas though as I think they think babies should be on a strict GF stule routine from day one, so thank you for starting this thread

springheeled makes a good point - you are in a routine, it just isn't the 'babies should go to bed at 7pm' one which is so often touted as the desirable one.

Different I think if you are a single mum - or operating as one for large chunks of time like fedup, but for a lot of families the evening is the only time that fathers get to spend with their babies.
DH doesn't finish work until 6-6.30, and if we had been desperate to get DS into bed for 7pm then DH and DS would barely have met during the week.

DS is now 2.5, and his bedtime is 8pm. He sleeps until 8am. We have dinner together as a family once DH has finished work, and I get up at about 7.30am to have a shower before DS wakes up - less so atm because I'm pregnant and knackered, DS comes in for cuddles and we sit in bed while he has milk and I have a cup of tea.
Friends are so envious that he wakes up at a civilised hour, but they all have their toddlers in bed by 6.30-7pm and then wonder why they won't sleep beyond 6-7am.

Work out what suits you OP, and ignore anyone trying to tell you differently.

Hi tiredfeet :) been a while, how are you getting on?
Thankfully we're not seeing the in-laws until Easter, otherwise I'd be in hell! I lie through my teeth to my mother though "yes, I popped him straight back in his hammock after I fed him and he slept til morning" etc :o

That's a good point Ali. It's one of the French things that I like - children go to bed later after a family meal. Seems more civilised all round, no stressing over two sittings, and a bit more sleep in the morning. :)

the HV is telling you to leave a 9wk old baby to cry? As the other have said, this is outdated bollocks! A 9wk old baby isn't capable of manipulation, he just wants his mummy!

At 9wks I think you just have to go-with-the-flow? At 9 wks DD was a screaming colicy baby and we both slept whenever we could! (usually sometime after 4am)

If you & DH are happy with what you're doing, then stick with it! I started thinking about DD having a "bedtime" once the colic stopped (12wks?) so that DH & I could spend the evening together and possibly perhaps think about venturing out of the house on my own in the evening!

I read & loved the Baby Whisperer, which suggests the EASY routine: Eat, Activity, Sleep, You-time. There are no times set for doing things, you just do those things in the same order, and the idea is that you will gradually fall into a routine. (worked for us!)

Enjoy your time with your baby - before you know it, he will be a noisy 2yo and your living room will be a sea of plastic toys

Ignore her and give him a cuddle.

All good here fingon ds feeding a lot and getting fatter by the day. if you have tine come and join us on the new thread (can't link from phone but its in postnatal) , think most of us are doing similar to you.

Totally feel that what we are doing is working for us as a family, just a shame other people have to interfere! Think your plan of telling your mother what she wants to hear is v sensible

Ok I'll come and look you up, I lost the thread somehow and had to post out in the open :o

Glad your DS is well and getting fat. DS lost lots of weight to start with but is now settled on the 9th centile he's a tiddler!

Thanks Bessie, I'll see if I can work something like that in a bit, it seems sensible :)

Its called october 2010 arrivals lounge

Ds is on 98th!! He's huge, not sure why as dh and I are quite average height. Tiny babies look so sweet though

Forgot to say, I try and use the easy routine bessie suggested, it does seem to help, a bit of structure but also nice and flexible to mine and ds's needs

I remember a friend of mine looking on at me in horror as I BF my 3-month-old DD2 and saying: "You're not still demand feeding, are you?"

To which I replied something along the lines of "No, I just enjoy getting them out." She never said anything again.

I didn't do routines either, other than keeping late/night feeds quiet and unstimulating - both my girls are excellent sleepers, confident and independent and yes, I did pick them up, cuddle them and go to them when they cried in the night.

Penelope Leach is (almost) God.

Thanks tiredfeet! DH and I are both above average height, we're a bit surprised he's so small. But he is very cute :o

ROFL pointy, I'm going to save that one up!

Ah, Fingon - were you the mum whose baby lost more than 10% and the midwife was threatening you with formula top ups if your baby didn't gain 2lb in 3 days or some such nonsense? And then you held out and found a nice doctor who supported you?

Sounds like he is a lovely boy and you're all doing well :) Keep on not listening to HVs and trust your instinct like you did at the start!

Yes, that was me :)

He has had some formula top-ups recently, but had none before 7 or 8 weeks. And after 'fessing up on here to WoTMania that it was making me miserable I've knocked it on the head. I've fed him every daylight hour for the last 2 days and he's had no formula since Tuesday, so hopefully we're back to EBF!

I feel like all I do on here is ask for advice, so thank you to all of you who keep giving it :)

Some HVs are mental - I was told that my 11 week old was manipulating me by only going to sleep in the sling for naps and that I should put him down and let him cry. :( My GP told me to put him down and 'let him scream'. :(

He stopped needing the sling at 14 weeks.

You'll work out a rhythm of your own which suits you and your baby. It may take a while, but 9 weeks is very early days!

On the bedtime thing, earlier bedtimes seem to be biologically determined to some extent at least, and many babies don't think it's night time in the early evening until around 3/4/5 months when their body clocks mature a bit.

If you don't already have one, a fabric sling will help you hold him during the day and get a few things done as well.

Congratulations and keep up the good work. I always think that a co-sleeping baby is a happy baby. :)

My friend's paediatrician (in Germany) advised her that it is "safe" to let a baby cry it out for up to two hours

God knows what he thought happened after two hours...

MoonUnit that is barbaric!

MoonUnit, how awful!