Cry-it-out used on newborn

[Sappholit]

I know someone who has a 10-month-old baby who she left to cry-it-out from the age of 4 days because her husband said they couldn't have a bay who would only sleep on their chests. They shut the baby in another room until she stopped crying.

The baby has always slept through the night and this couple in genuine innocence are very proud of the method they used. They seem to have no idea about why newborn babies cry.

They are now expecting their second child and will be doing the same thing. I really want to point out the effect of such treatment on a newborn but (a) I'm not sure it's my place and (b) they are very opinionated and blame the fact that I have a sleepless 8-month-old on the fact that I didn't put her down for the first 6 weeks.

WHat would you do in my situation? I usually just think everyone should be left to bring up their children as they see fit, but this is such a massive issue for me - I am very worried about the impending baby being given such brutal treatment as soon it's out of the womb.

I've been in your shoes.. friends of ours have done it twice, the second time coinciding with my ever-crying, colicky, fed on demand baby..

I don't really think you can say anything, actually..

I hate the idea of it - but I don't think you can do anything about it. They are probably looking at their (presumably) happy well-attached ten mo, and thinking it's worth it.

God, it's awful, I have friends who do this but from 4 months and it makes me so . Short of subtly lending a book/magazine with something about how damaging it is, I don't know what you can do. Heartbreaking though.

I would talk to their health visitor team.
I would state your concerns and ask them to intervene.

Or you could say did you see that programme the other day about babies being left to cry and how it can damage their brains?

something like that.

Possibly you could say that you're not sure it's a good idea, but obviously as you're not an expert suggest they talk to their health visitor about it...? That way you might avoid coming across as too judgey and they might listen to the HV more, perhaps.

I'd probably do nothing - what can you do?

My SIL was like this. 1st DC slept through from around 6 weeks so second HAD to do same. Refused to feed him through the night from that age no matter how much he screamed - and he did scream (or allow anyone else to feed him - he was formula fed). Still rankles. Lost all respect for BIL for allowing it to happen. Grrr.

For an older child, and parents who already know both sides of the debate, I probably wouldn't say anything.

But with a newborn baby, and parents who could actually somehow be unaware that there's even the possibility that it could be harmful to their baby, I'd probably use the already suggested line about having watched or read something on the issue to bring it up in a non-confrontational kind of way. This BBC article is quite light reading and a good talking point to start a discussion with.

People like this make me so angry. If you're not willing to take care of your child, and bend to their every need right at the beginning of their life, then don't have children! Its neglectful. The reason the baby stops crying is that they learn no one cares about them enough to come and comfort them.

I couldn't be friends with people who were willing to implement such cruelty, and would tell them so.

Poor children :(

But in practice, what could you do? This is certainly not 'neglect', 'abuse' or any such nonsense people are saying- these words are ridiculously overused nowadays. This is a parenting method with which you disagree, perhaps for very good reasons. There will be hundreds of parenting methods you disagree with (in your friends & relatives) down the line. The most you can do is just stay away from these friends if you don't like what they're doing. Reporting them to the HV is such a silly idea: what will she do?! Knock on the couples' door & say 'oooh I've heard from a friend of yours you let your newborn cry at night!' And then what will she go on to do in order to reprimand them?

Fortunately or unfortunately, there's little we can do in practice with the way others choose to raise their children. The most we can do is make decisions for our own family, and then IF friends ask for our opinion and IF it feels right to offer it, we can do so.

This is excluding of course obvious cases or real abuse / neglect where we have to intervene.

This makes my blood run cold, babies are totally reliant on adults to care for them and it really hurts when I hear of tiny little ones being ignored / neglected in this way, I'd rather risk losing a friend than not say anything, I just couldn't stand it

I would just say it, tbh.
Who cares if they're offended?

I would class it as neglect. We are not talking about an older baby who could, perhaps, be expected to sleep well but a newborn baby. Frankly if they can't be arsed to get up during the night for a newborn baby they should have got a goldfish instead. They are lazy and selfish.

I would say something and wouldn't give a stuff if it upset them.

That's so sad. I never understand how people can physically lie there and listen to their babies cry and do nothing. Makes me feel sick to my stomach when dd is upset.

I agree that it's neglectful but a lot of the parents who see it as a 'method' aren't otherwise neglectful.
It's ignorance rather than nature iyswim. Or rather, misinformation.

I'm afraid I do think it's neglectful - the baby wasn't fed at all at night. That can't be anything other than neglect. I do also think it's abuse. A newborn baby is wired to act only on its primitive instinct, and a baby left abandoned can only panic and fear for its life, frankly.

This woman isn't my friend. She's just someone I meet at groups and stuff, and told me all about her method when I said how my 8-month-old won't sleep longer than 2 hours at a time (on a good night, but that's another story).

Well then all the more reason to say something: you have nothing to lose.
That poor baby.

The op hasn't said that the baby was left throughout the night though.

I read it as putting the baby down to sleep in another room, I would presume the baby is fed/changed given plenty hugs.

Presumably they were wanting the baby to be able to get itself off to sleep rather than have to be held to get to sleep, or have I read it wrongly?

Sorry, just read that baby hasn't been fed through the night!

I thought "Cry it out" was where you left them to cry for a set period of time and gradually increased it? (rather than just leaving the baby to cry)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferber_method

Personally I could never do it (DD, 2 has never been left to cry for more than 2 minutes) & would have to say something... probably more along the lines of "I could never leave my baby to cry alone" rather than "You are horrible people for letting you baby cry alone" - I think you need to express your opinion of the "method", and give suggestions of other solutions for them to use. Perhaps give them a copy of the Baby Whisperer?!

I 'learned' my son to get off to sleep himself by putting him down when it was sleep time instead of rocking him to sleep, thought that was what the op was getting at.
Would never condone not feeding a baby at regular intervals, thats just barbaric!

There isn't a health professional in the country that would recommend leaving a newborn baby to "cry it out".

Sappholit, if you don't feel able to speak to the mum about it then I suggest that you contact the NSPCC for advice.

The thing is, if you go down the route of saying I wouldn't do that' then you get the other (let's face it, much harder) person thinking you are a sap. I have experience of this - I challenged my SIL for using The Contented Baby Book. Nicely and with reference to myself. She hates me anyway but her opinion of me is most likely lower now.

All the time the baby is being 'left' to cry in another room regardless of reason it is missing out on valuable time with its parents, thos ecrucial early days when a child starts to learn to attach to a grown up and to trust that when they cry for help an aduult will come

These are early life lessons that cannot be learned successfully again without major intervention, and research has shown that babies left to cry in wards in orphanages have underdeveloped brains compared to those that were attended to, even in the most basic way.

Its all about attachment Theory

Oh come on though, NOWHERE in attachment theory does it say that babies in orphanages left to cry it out / left without stimulation for prolonged periods of time (which is what happened at some Romanian orphanages & there was an outcry & much research about it) has anything whatsoever to do with what the OP is describing. We're talking about prolonged periods of time, days & days, months & months, and no main carer, rather than this situation here in an otherwise ordinary (from what we know) family.

However strongly I disagree- and I do- with not feeding / not responding to a newborn, it's really really not neglect / abuse, and there's nothing much one can do about it apart from perhaps saying something. But there's a whole range of things, as I wrote above, that each and everyone of us could disagree on, so where is the limit IYSWIM?