Cry-it-out used on newborn

[Sappholit]

I know someone who has a 10-month-old baby who she left to cry-it-out from the age of 4 days because her husband said they couldn't have a bay who would only sleep on their chests. They shut the baby in another room until she stopped crying.

The baby has always slept through the night and this couple in genuine innocence are very proud of the method they used. They seem to have no idea about why newborn babies cry.

They are now expecting their second child and will be doing the same thing. I really want to point out the effect of such treatment on a newborn but (a) I'm not sure it's my place and (b) they are very opinionated and blame the fact that I have a sleepless 8-month-old on the fact that I didn't put her down for the first 6 weeks.

WHat would you do in my situation? I usually just think everyone should be left to bring up their children as they see fit, but this is such a massive issue for me - I am very worried about the impending baby being given such brutal treatment as soon it's out of the womb.

I think I may have to start hiding the parenting topic - threads like this one just make me so desperately .

Sappholit - you will undoubtedly lose a friend if you say something but I really hope, for the baby's sake, you can find a way to broach the subject. If you can't tackle it directly, could you buy them a book like The Wonder Years or Why Love Matters (mainstream but setting out the scientific theory behind attachment parenting)?

Realistically, it is going to be very difficult, not least because if they did come round to your way of thinking then it would leave them with huge guilt issues for the way they treated their first child....

I would probably email her the BBC link and just say something like, 'I am only going to mention this once, and then I will never bring it up >>>> link'.

And then leave it at that. Duty of care done. Under the circs, I couldn't not mention it.

Never bring it up again.

how is their 10mth old .. are they a happy well fed, well loved child

if they are you have no reason to think no2 will be any different.

Abuse is a very horrid word to be bandying about lightly. If you know your baby has jst been fed, has a clean nappy and is not too hot or too cold, and is in a safe3 environment then letting them cry is not abuse

I think it is terrible to accuse this family of abuse and neglect, using extreme examples from the NSPCC advert and research from orphanages. There is evidence on both sides and Dr Leach's opinions are based on extrapolation. That BBC article is opinion is dressed up as fact.

I don't agree with what they have done and didn't do it myself, but if the child is warm, well fed, loved, clean and secure, that's great for them. There isn't (despite what it seems from here) just one right way to bring up a child.

I left my newborn to cry it out from the night she was born. Not intentionally - she was in SCBU. I begged them to let me know if she needed me between feeds. They never did. It took me going back up there to find her very distressed several times, before I realised that the paediatric nurses had so little respect that they would just fob me off, whatever I asked.

We still don't know why she needed to stay there for so long. Everytime we asked to see a paediatrician, or asked for information about her prognosis or care plan, we were also fobbed off. I was repeatedly told off for holding her, because it would "tire her out".

This woman's parenting philosophy does not seem so extraordinary, in that context. I do not agree with it. But I don't think it is neglect. But, in your shoes, I would tell her why you disagree with her method.

I fail to understand how anyone could do this. [hsad]

AS for the question of neglect, in my book yes it is. They are neglecting to meet the emotional and nutritional needs of a tiny baby. How is that not neglect? [hshock]

As said above, no medical profesional would recommend this (bar the odd sadly misinformed HV [hangry] ) so to try and claim it as a parenting option, another way to bring up a child is uterly shocking to me.

There seems to be a niave view that a clean well dressed child can not be a victim of abuse or neglect. There are other, imo more important things to consider. A child can learn how to dress itself one day. It can never replace the trust it should have for a parent, if this trust is broken.

Unwind, x post Sorry to hear your story. [hsad] I would put in a complaint.

I did put in a complaint. The response made it clear, that at the highest level, our treatment was considered acceptable.

I think you have a naive view of medical professionals (as I had).

A child who is loved and kept fed, and clean and warm, is very lucky.

Frasersmummy and MrsGangly - the point is, the baby isn't being fed during the night.

A newborn cannot go through the night without being fed. That's what's getting to people; not just leaving it cry it out.

It is either ceasing to cry as it realizes no-one will come, or just as likely through sheer exhaustion from all the crying. You would never leave a distressed child, teenager or adult to cry it out, so why do it to a baby who has the least understanding that it will be OK, of all?

MrsGangly it isn't secure and fed.

It's distressed, alone, crying, has no idea of the fact people do come back when they leave. Children learn this between 6 and 12 months typically.

Before that if no one comes they don't have any way of knowing anyone will EVER come.

It's extremely damaging to a child's development to abandon it to its own cries at a few months old.

Secure? Possibly the worst thing you can possibly do in terms of nurturing security.

Unfortunately have heard this a few times myself, newborns put in rooms by themselves from birth practically, fed well and if they don't settle they are left to cry. Have heard of one being put downstairs in a far away room in her pram, all doors shut Mum upstairs with iPod on .

I think a lot of this is still coming from our parents generation when babies were seen as things you had to almost train and break their will or you would be at their beck and call, rod for your own back etc.

I remember that programme with that loony Nanny who believed you fed them every 4 hours, changed them, then largely ignored them. The 4 hourly feed thing is still so ingrained in many peoples minds. And sleeping through as the holy grail, I also know people who do crazy things with rice/rusk in bottles, extra scoops of formula, weaning at 6 weeks anything to get them to sleep through, as that's what their Mums did.

I don't know how anyone could ignore a tiny crying baby. I know how desperate you feel getting broken sleep, I have a nonsleeping 6mo DS. I am sure a lot of people think I am barking, cosleeping and feeding him as he demands it.

I think it's neglectful, physically and emotionally!

Just imagine as an adult if you were left to scream yourself exhausted and then not even given a drink - think how thirsty you would be if nothing else.

It's dangerous and cruel. I'd at least have to express my shock to the mother, so she doesn't get the impression it's a normal or acceptable thing to do.

It is dangerous to leave a newborn to cry - not just dangerous because of its future mental and emotional well-being, but dangerous to its immediate survival.

I remember the story of Bill Oddie's mother, who spent much of her adult life in a mental hospital. Her baby daughter (Oddie's sister) had died, aged 5 days old, of dehydration (IIRC, this was on the death certificate). She had been crying, but the tyrannical grandmother prevented Oddie's mother from attending to her.

This is rare, because most people have the common sense to realise that when a tiny baby is crying, it needs something.

I would have to say something, I think, at the risk of falling out.

Jeez, tiktok, that's dreadfully sad.

I can't imagine leaving a baby that age to cry when it needs something, certainly not all night!

I might have gone the opposite way a little, I never left DS to cry for very long at all, because he overheated so fast and he also had a hernia that bulged when he cried (until it was repaired at 7wo). But even if he hadn't had those issues, I still wouldn't have left him to cry - it was so easy to stop him crying by picking him up for cuddles or feeds, why would I put us both through the pain of not doing it?
He's a very happy 2.11yo now so I'm not sorry, even if he still likes to be surgically attached to me at all hours.

I still think that nobody on this thread knows the circumstances, and the OP hasn't been back to explain. I have heard of new born babies sleeping through, it's obviously rare but it does happen.

I don't understand how anyone can leave a new born to cry. But we really don't know if this is a case of a starving baby left hysterically crying for hours every night for weeks or even month or a naturally fabulous sleeper who was left to grizzle for 30 mins for a couple of nights.

If she has always slept through and is happy ad healthy I am inclined to think the situation was closer to my second description. Maybe none of us would do either but there is obviously a world of differences between the the 2 extreme scenarios I outlined.

I couldn't be friends with these people tbh.

Its not the same tellnoone. In the advert they are suggesting that miles is neglected and ignored all day. I do agree that from a newborn is far too young. I remember when i had my first, i wanted a bath and my dad was over. Heard her crying and never washed so quick in my life. I asked my dad why did you not go and he said its not good to constantly handle baby and it would do her no harm! I have not heard of the cry it out method. I did the controlled crying one when she got to about 8 months. Found it heartbreaking at first but after a few days she would go down no problem and sleep. Personally i could not leave a newborn to cry at night as something could be wrong. However this is a method suggested and in their eyes they are doing what they think is best. No offence but i dont think it is your place to say to them. If they are clearly not abusing their child then leave them be and just do the best for yours as you see fit.

would they seriously do it with an older child in the house? we did a version of cc with our 7month old when at our absolute wits end (and a few months pregnant) having tried everything else but there was no way i was going to let ds2 scream and cry and wake up his big brother - not that i would leave either of them to scream and cry anyway, especially a newborn.

if their older child is generally happy then they are just going to see that happy child and assume they have done nothing wrong so it would take a hell of a lot to persuade them otherwise.

if/when they bring it up in general conversation i would make a point that i really don't want to hear about it as i find it too upsetting and wrong - then you could point out that you disagree with it based on research you have read about and hope they pick up the hint and think a bit harder about what they are doing and why.

ExMIL once boasted to me that she never once got up in the night for any of her large family. She had that old fashioned 'rod to beat you', break their spirit attitude. The BILs, SILs and exH are not happy people.

30 minutes crying is far, far, too long for a young baby. In real life, occasionally, babies may cry for a very short while because mum is in the loo/answering the door/otherwise unable to soothe immediately - that's unavoidable. But deliberately leaving a tiny baby to cry is wrong. If your best friend was sitting sobbing her heart out, would you deiberately ignore her until she fell asleep exhausted?

I'd be surprised if this didn't damage the baby but what I'm really interested to know is how is this couple's eldest child? what kind of personality/nature has he/she got now?

Poor kids :(

Not sure how any mother (unless mentally unwell) can just leave their newborn to cry. I know it's exhausting at the beginning but let's face it, it's hard to ignore a baby crying (esp for food!!) during the night. IMO not feeding a newborn at night is neglectful. What kind of people are these anyway???

I never thought I'd be like this with my own two DC but I always wake before they do for their nightly feeds - I just do it, don't even think about it, even before the first cry (as I'm sure many other mums do too). I'm guessing it's engrained, an instinct you have as a mother.

IMO just be blunt about it - tell them it straight that they could be damaging their DC by using this ridiculous method. Perhaps they don't get it that babies need fed during the night??

DH made me do that; until dd screamed so much she vomited everywhere (after nearly 2 hrs, by which time I was beside myself). Once he realised it wasn't going to work without him chipping in on cleaning up vomit, he relented and let me have my way. (He got his revenge by playing tickling games with her whenever he kissed her goodnight - all snuggled up and half asleep - thus waking her up again for several more hours. Kill him? Perhaps I should have....)