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Parenting

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Problem 10yr old Boy

52 replies

Zebedee68 · 19/10/2010 00:08

Hey all, thanks in advance for your help/advice :-)

My girlfriend of 3 months has 3 kids, aged 13, 10 & 9. The teenage girl is fine, pretty awesome in fact, as teenagers go, and totally gets, understands and supports her mum & me in this problem. The youngest girl is very sweet, but is totally led by her elder brother - and so most times she is fine, but occasionally this issue is excerbated by her as well.

The middle child, a boy who is nearly 11, is a very nice kid - his school teachers would describe him as thoughtful, caring and considerate, while still being a young lad - so far so good.

My g/f had a hard time with her ex, the kids father - he was abusive to her and his son - both physically & mentally - she had to be rehomed as an emergency, following one particular incident involving violence.

My g/f is very caring, supportive, loyal & loving - not to mention intelligent (she is a teacher) but is at the very end of her tether with her son (and to some extent her youngest daughter).

He has no respect for his mum, and will physically and verbally abuse her - he loves his mum (and me, tbh) but as soon as he doesn't get his own way, things kick off and the normal loving behaviour goes out the window.

On Saturday night he woke up in the middle of the night and heard us making love (around 4am - we make a point of waiting until the kids are asleep lol) and then obviously lay awake until daylight cogitating on it - come sunday morning he woke his sisters up to tell them what he had heard (literally a few moans, nothing more) - but thanks to the early sex education they receive at that agen (the mechanics, with no mention of loving relationships - or none that makes any sense to a 10 year old mind, at any rate).

In his mind (and his words - he wasted no time in telling his mum, when she had got up) I had no right to be coming over to his house to fck his mother - she is a dirty whre who scks my cck (he has no idea what this means, other than the words - and she didn't lol) and she is worth nothing, and he only lives there because his friends go to his school. (He packed his cloths into carrier bags ready to leave).

His father was physically abusive to him, and is still verbally so - he doesn't want to go live with his father because he is afraid of him. (We don't want him to go - but like it is now, it's a serious option).

When he is ok, he will tell you that his mum was the only one who stuck up for him, and supported him all the years. But when he gets into a tantrum - she is nothing but a piece of shit. He will break furniture, throw things at her, swear at her, hit her, etc etc.

Nothing in particular sets off this behaviour - just whenever he doesn't get his own way. My g/f is not particularly strict - but is not lax either, she is a teacher and knows how to respond to people.

I'm pretty laid back, but when I see his behaviour I have to say something - he responds to me somewhat - when I am there (3 nights a week usually) he doesn't throw stuff, or use the the c word - but after I go, it's no holds barred. I don't shout, scream or lose it - I stay rational, but its hard. When he is in that mood, nothing seems to work. The day after, we can talk and he understands, and promises to moderate his behaviour, but when he loses it the next time, its back to square one.

My amateur psychoanalysis would suggest that he sees himself as the man of the house, and that gives him (given his past experience) free reign in telling the rest of the household to do what he says. (He used to insists upon sleeping with his mum, even when he wasn't poorly - she stopped it pretty quick, but he will still try it on, making up excuses not to sleep in his own bed etc)

His younger sister has always been treated like a princess by her dad - she can do no wrong, and her brother poisons her mind against her mum. She is now getting to the age where she thinks she can stand up to her mum, and her brothers word is what matters, not her mums.

As I said, his elder sister sees what goes on and is very very supportive of her mum & me (a breath of sanity, really)

I love my girlfriend very much, and her kids too. We need some serious help, and quick - please.

He is going to see his dad tomorrow night (for the first time in 6 months) and will no doubt tell him just how bad his mum is - this morning he was going to go school and tell everyone that his mum had been pissed all weekend (she had 1 bottle of wine on sat night) and that we had spent all weekend in bed shagging (we didn't obviously - I played with him on my xbox and we took the dogs out for a walk in the countryside - he didn't like that)

When his dad hears this, he will give my g/f a whole world of sh*t. I will be there - just in case - and I'm not a physical or violent man, but I will fight him if he starts on my girl.

How do I/we sort this? How can we get through to him, and stop this behaviour/attitude?

Sorry if that's all a bit disjointed, we are both stressed to hell - we have both been through some really sh*tty times these past few years and really need the happiness we have found together. I'm 42 with 2 teenagers (my youngest has spent half his life in hospital) and my g/f is 37 to give you some context.

Thanks for reading, all useful advice/thoughts is welcome.

OP posts:
chandra · 19/10/2010 00:40

A book for you: "Raising Boys" By Stephen Bidulph.

The rebellion against the mum, and fighting to be the head of the household are boys teenage traits.

The level aggressiveness and the language he is using, are more the aftermath of what he witnessed from his dad. May I suggest Relate Teen? Unfortunately, the example set by his dad will be hard to neutralise, but is has to be done, otherwise he would go through life treating women like that. So better sooner than late.

In the mean time, I would say you have to have a friendly but firm conversation with him on how you are there to support his mother and you wouldn't allow such behaviour towards her. (yes, I know, many people would say that you should not correct other people's children, especially those who have been through the trauma of a divorce, but this is a more serious matter, if he is allowed to continue, one day he can really hurt her, he is getting stronger than her, she can't sort the situation on her own anymore, so better to stop such behaviour asap)

LilMsUnfortunateAxeIncident · 19/10/2010 00:49

You have been with this woman all of 12 weeks and you are staying over regularly already? Hmm

The middle child has issues with this and YOU are on here asking us how to deal with HIM?

Sorry, but #1, this is not your business, though I'm kind of pleased you are taking an interest of some kind.

#2, it's way too soon for the analysis of these DC, they have all clearly suffered, and all this will get back to the father, he is going to go spare about it and the DC are going to be slap bang in the middle of it all. AGAIN

The boy doesn't want to see his mother hurt again, yes he is being male and possessive about it, my DS (4.10) is the same, against his own dad, but that is for ME to resolve, by reassuring him that we are all going to be OK and that he will be fine. That takes time, and gentle negotiation.

His hormones are racing, and his world is shattering about his ears and Mum has a new bloke in her bed in a matter of months since meeting him.

IF you pair ARE love's young dream and are meant to be together my advice will be easily followed and will not impact on your future together in the slightest. it will however improve the lot of the most impressionable and clearly vulnerable people in all this, the DC.

You both need to back the hell up right now. Slow down, only see each other when the DC are not there. You need to arrange fun afternoons out together after a while of knowing each other.

Unless you are childhood friends, you literally could be anyone, she doesn't know you properly in 3m to move you in or allow you contact with her DC. Likewise you with her and your DC.

If you are meant to be together you will be. But the over nighters have to stop immediately until the DC have got used to you, and that you have proved that you are trustworthy.

I'm not suggesting you aren't, but in 12weeks, how could you be a fully known quantity. And how could she be to you?

You are both old enough to know better, you are both being selfish. You are also young enough to wait and take it slow and do it right.

Sorry to be so blunt, but anyone can see these DC are not being best served by this situation, and they are powerless to do anything about it. That, doing the right thing, is down to you and your GF.

quietlysuggests · 19/10/2010 00:49

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quietlysuggests · 19/10/2010 00:53

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HeadlessLadyBiscuit · 19/10/2010 01:02

You're staying over three nights a week and you've known one another three months? Good grief, I'm not surprised her son's reacting like this.

Zebedee68 · 19/10/2010 01:24

Lil, thanks for your considered reply.

I take your point, and I won't argue with it, I'll just say that neither of us are being selfish, and we think and act in a totally child-centric way.

tbh, I didn't think I would get any better replies than this on here, but it was worth a try - as I said, we (or more particularly my g/f) are at the end of our tether.

You are right, it's not my business - but I'm not going to walk away from the love of my life - and after all I've seen and done, I know it when I see it.

Your amateur psychoanalysis is no better than mine - he has no issues about seeing his mother hurt again, his issues stem purely from a lack of control - IMHO obviously.

Your advice re our relationship may have been well intended, but obviously has no correlation to the real world - I ask for constructive criticism, if criticism is warranted.

To give you an example of how bad your advice is - I could see my g/f every Friday evening for the next 3 months (assuming we could afford nights out, babysitters etc) and then spend 3 months going to hers every saturday afternoon to bond with the kids - (I did think my post made it clear that we had already bonded - they like me) and then after 6 months we could spend the odd night together, perhaps - depending on sitters etc, you really think his behaviour would be any different???

It wouldn't.

Thanks anyway, but have you any positive advice?

OP posts:
Zebedee68 · 19/10/2010 01:31

Chandra - I agree, that's exactly what I've been doing, but my g/f needs new tools on how to deal with this.

Quietly - you got it basically, but this behaviour has been going on for a long long time (6 years) since before I was around and his mum has over the years tried everything and got nowhere.

It's not my problem, and I haven't made things worse - but rational/normal methods arn't working and we need help.

As for those who question that we sleep together after 12 weeks - seriously perhaps you need to broaden your horizons before pro-offering advice.

Constructive criticism would help guys, thanks.

OP posts:
HeadlessLadyBiscuit · 19/10/2010 08:43

It's not about having broad horizons - I can assure you I have very broad horizons. It's just that three months is a very short time to have been in a child's life for you to effectively move in and start acting as the man of the house.

I really dislike the subject line too - problem boy, yuck. He's a traumatised and abused boy who is reacting in what is a pretty normal way to a huge trauma. Not a problem that needs to be sorted so that you pretend to play instant happy families.

You say he the only child who was abused by his father. What kind of help has he received to come to terms with that? Are CAMHS involved?

cory · 19/10/2010 09:16

Well, I hate to say it, but this is a child who has been abused and is traumatised: his mother's first duty is to him, not to you. It's not that your needs don't count, it's just that under the circumstances they come way, way down the line. It's the same as if she had a seriously ill child: you would both be expected to put that child's needs first. And that means taking time, being patient, not looking for quick fixes, being firm but loving towards him at all times- and being very, very discreet about your lovemaking.

If the child was abused by his father, then his subconscious thought will be that his mother either was unable to protect him (and therefore would be unable to protect him if a new man turned funny after a while) or that she didn't prioritise his needs. He needs to unlearn all those feelings. Which means the two of you need to show that there is no risk that his needs will go unmet because she prioritises an adult relationship, and that there is no risk that you will ever let him down by turning angry or abusive.

It's a massive job, but you can't pretend it's not there. Any more than you could take on a relationship with a woman with a disabled child or a seriously ill child and pretend that she would be able to just ignore the illness or the disability.

LilMsUnfortunateAxeIncident · 19/10/2010 09:43

You have been with this woman 3 months.

THREE MONTHS

How does this make you an expert on her DS, on her or anything to do with her. you don't know her. Certainly not enough to come on here and ask for help. Why is SHE not the one asking?

You asked how would it help if you backed off. FGS, If I have to tell you then you really ARE selfish. and, sorry but clueless.

"he has no issues about seeing his mother hurt again, his issues stem purely from a lack of control - IMHO obviously"

HOW on EARTH would you know this? He doesn't have that kind of relationship with you. He's not opening up to you, nor his mother, he's just trying to work out what is happening around him and who he can trust, and is being failed left right and centre.

You are refusing to take any responsibility in this car crash at all aren't you?

If lack of control is the case, then why don't you just have a right go at the love of your life and tell her to get him under control then? Hmm That was sarcasm btw.

Poor DC don't stand a chance with either one of you. Your collective genitalia is doing all the thinking.

The boy in question has not see his own dad for 6m, yet he wakes up in the middle of the night and a new bloke, (this is what you are) is having sex with his Mum.

You say you are child centric... If that were true, you'd be looking at this story from the DC perspective. You are not.

If you look at this situation from the DC perspective, the parents have clearly had problems, there have been incidences of abuse apparently, and now mum has got a new partner who is being encouraged on the DC 3 times a week.

Your GF decision to allow you to stay over 3 days a week in 3m is deeply flawed. For her own personal safety, for that of her DC and for the emotional well being of her family. You are in this for 5 minutes and are labelling an 11 year old boy from a broken and clearly dysfunctional background as a problem child, all the while thinking its OK to be there half the week.

No wonder he resents you, you ARE moving in on his territory. In his eyes, he's not the problem YOU ARE. In his eyes, HIS MOTHER IS PART OF IT TOO.

What this family needs (and that doesn't involve you yet) is to work out who and what it is, as an entity. She and her DC need to be given the time to bond as a unit without the father in their lives. To heal. If there is an abuse issue between the boy and the dad, all the more reason to keep male relationships far from him, until he has learned to trust men again.

You should not be even in contact with her DC in 3m. Sorry but you shouldn't. ESPECIALLY if the DC have issues with abuse from the parental relationship.

Carry on seeing her, of course! Build your relationship, but outside of her family unit and yours. You HAVE to bond as man and woman before the kids are involved. Realistically this takes many more months than you have generously waited.

We are not saying don't sleep with her, we are saying don't do it with the kids present.

I say again. If this woman is the love your life and you hers, then there is no need to panic. You will be with her for the rest of your lives. What's the rush?

IF you are THE ONE for her, you will back off and allow her the space to help her DC back into a normal space. They all have clearly been through the mill, and all of them need to heal, before attempting to fuse with another family.

This may be the perfect relationship for you and your GF, the seriousness of it may be part of the thing that is most scaring the boy. For him, this situation is not working, this situation is causing him real stress, suffering and trauma. He is acting that out.

I never, ever visit Parenting, I mainly hang out in relationships, chat and AIBU. You posted this up in AIBU, and if you hadn't I would have never have seen it. Your OP really saddened me. I don't do pussy footing, I don't do tip toeing around the issues, and never when I see the actions of adults so drastically affecting children.

I've been here long enough to know the situation in which you, your GF and her family find yourselves in, is less than ideal.

I've given you constructive advice. Advice designed to help give a little boy time understand about relationships, and parenthood.

You can fix this, but you BOTH have to be selfless, controlled and really properly child centric, not just saying the word.

ScaryFucker · 19/10/2010 09:56

You want constructive advice ?

I have none for you.

But I do for your girlfriend.

She should finish her relationship with you and concentrate on her son for a while. He has been abused and then sidelined at an extremely vulnerable time in his development.

This boy is not "a problem child". He is in a "problem situation" through no fault of his own. Moving a new man into his space so soon is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

thesecondcoming · 19/10/2010 10:02

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker · 19/10/2010 10:06

I think the little boy is angry which generally means insecure and vulnerable. You do sound lovely but a little hasty. I have always thought six months before a new 'parent' becomes a fixture...afterall this child needs to know his mother is there for him. I think she's sounds quite foolish.

You are not a parent and so it must be v ery hard to put a child's needs before your own, but his mother should have done so. She allowed him to be abused and did great things by escaping that for herself but she needs to ensure her son is repaired before throwing anything else into the mix.

HeadlessLadyBiscuit · 19/10/2010 10:19

He is a parent Posie - he has two teenage children.

I have just reread the OP and somehow missed this jaw-dropping bit:

His father was physically abusive to him, and is still verbally so - he doesn't want to go live with his father because he is afraid of him. (We don't want him to go - but like it is now, it's a serious option).

You and your GF are seriously considering punishing an abused child by making him live with his abuser unless he doesn't behave?

FFS you don't sound lovely at all you sound like scum frankly.

ScaryFucker · 19/10/2010 10:22

I saw that too, HLB

that poor kid

this bloke ain't looking too good here

PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker · 19/10/2010 10:22

Actually his mother sounds like she needs a little counselling so she doesn't just jump into bed and rely on a man for her own happiness.

PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker · 19/10/2010 10:24

If I left Mr Posie tomorrow I think I would have to be with someone at least five years before they were invited to join in any decisions I made about my children....there would be no we.

coppertop · 19/10/2010 10:35

The poor child has been through a heck of a lot already. Abused by his father, witnessing the abuse of his mother, losing his home - and now there's another man in the house after just a few weeks.

If he can go through all of that and still be considered by his teachers to be "thoughtful, caring and considerate" then he's doing a heck of a lot better than many children would.

TheLadyEvilStar · 19/10/2010 10:36

I am going to go slightly against others here. The OP said this little boy has behaved like this for the last 6 years, well clearly he has some deep rooted issues. Which the OP were not party to.

Now I agree this is moving fast BUT that doesn't mean it is not going to work out.

I met DP in Feb 2006 we were practically living together within a month 2 months after that we had a family holiday to eurodisney - 5yrs later we are getting married. Both of us had recently come out of a marraige but we knew we wanted to be together. DS1 absoloutely loves DP and has a better relationship with him than I could have hoped for.

However the issue here is not so disimilar to what I was going through. DS1 was misbehaving, at the time I put it down to experiences he had had, and DP stepped in beside me and supported me. Now after 5yrs he can get DS1 to see reason, and help him calm down, whereas I still struggle.

OP, I don't have any advice really I just hope things smooth out for you all soon.

ScaryFucker · 19/10/2010 10:38

TLES...was it ever on the cards that your misbehaving boy might be shipped off to live with your ExP if he didn't behave ?

Hullygully · 19/10/2010 10:42

You want advice to improve your and your girlfriend's lives. Unfortunately it is all about the child, and the advice given to improve his life, if taken, is the only way that your lives will improve.

You are actually getting reams of "constructive criticism," it's just that it's not saying what you want to hear. Try and see that if lots of people are all saying the same thing, there is probably some sound truth in it.

You might not like it, but hey ho, that's the way it is.

TheLadyEvilStar · 19/10/2010 10:43

Scary like hell!!! I would have rather slept with the devil himself than send him near that wanker!!!

I actually meant to add - OP even thinking about sending a young boy of 10 to live with a piece of shit who abused him is so wrong it is impossible to put it into words. Instead of you and your g'f considering this you should be working together (if you believe this is the right relationship) to help him not alienate him.

If you get on so well with the children look after the other 2 so Mum can take DS out ALONE and they can build their broken relationship. Give THEM time to bond, you will in time fall into place if this is the right relationship.

ShirleyGarrote · 19/10/2010 10:46

3 months?

What is the matter with people? Honestly.

thesecondcoming · 19/10/2010 10:51

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MrsC2010 · 19/10/2010 10:52

I replied on AIBU. Just can't type it again as baby DD has switched sides, but just can't believe this.

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