Problem 10yr old Boy

[Zebedee68]

Hey all, thanks in advance for your help/advice :-)

My girlfriend of 3 months has 3 kids, aged 13, 10 & 9. The teenage girl is fine, pretty awesome in fact, as teenagers go, and totally gets, understands and supports her mum & me in this problem. The youngest girl is very sweet, but is totally led by her elder brother - and so most times she is fine, but occasionally this issue is excerbated by her as well.

The middle child, a boy who is nearly 11, is a very nice kid - his school teachers would describe him as thoughtful, caring and considerate, while still being a young lad - so far so good.

My g/f had a hard time with her ex, the kids father - he was abusive to her and his son - both physically & mentally - she had to be rehomed as an emergency, following one particular incident involving violence.

My g/f is very caring, supportive, loyal & loving - not to mention intelligent (she is a teacher) but is at the very end of her tether with her son (and to some extent her youngest daughter).

He has no respect for his mum, and will physically and verbally abuse her - he loves his mum (and me, tbh) but as soon as he doesn't get his own way, things kick off and the normal loving behaviour goes out the window.

On Saturday night he woke up in the middle of the night and heard us making love (around 4am - we make a point of waiting until the kids are asleep lol) and then obviously lay awake until daylight cogitating on it - come sunday morning he woke his sisters up to tell them what he had heard (literally a few moans, nothing more) - but thanks to the early sex education they receive at that agen (the mechanics, with no mention of loving relationships - or none that makes any sense to a 10 year old mind, at any rate).

In his mind (and his words - he wasted no time in telling his mum, when she had got up) I had no right to be coming over to his house to fck his mother - she is a dirty whre who scks my cck (he has no idea what this means, other than the words - and she didn't lol) and she is worth nothing, and he only lives there because his friends go to his school. (He packed his cloths into carrier bags ready to leave).

His father was physically abusive to him, and is still verbally so - he doesn't want to go live with his father because he is afraid of him. (We don't want him to go - but like it is now, it's a serious option).

When he is ok, he will tell you that his mum was the only one who stuck up for him, and supported him all the years. But when he gets into a tantrum - she is nothing but a piece of shit. He will break furniture, throw things at her, swear at her, hit her, etc etc.

Nothing in particular sets off this behaviour - just whenever he doesn't get his own way. My g/f is not particularly strict - but is not lax either, she is a teacher and knows how to respond to people.

I'm pretty laid back, but when I see his behaviour I have to say something - he responds to me somewhat - when I am there (3 nights a week usually) he doesn't throw stuff, or use the the c word - but after I go, it's no holds barred. I don't shout, scream or lose it - I stay rational, but its hard. When he is in that mood, nothing seems to work. The day after, we can talk and he understands, and promises to moderate his behaviour, but when he loses it the next time, its back to square one.

My amateur psychoanalysis would suggest that he sees himself as the man of the house, and that gives him (given his past experience) free reign in telling the rest of the household to do what he says. (He used to insists upon sleeping with his mum, even when he wasn't poorly - she stopped it pretty quick, but he will still try it on, making up excuses not to sleep in his own bed etc)

His younger sister has always been treated like a princess by her dad - she can do no wrong, and her brother poisons her mind against her mum. She is now getting to the age where she thinks she can stand up to her mum, and her brothers word is what matters, not her mums.

As I said, his elder sister sees what goes on and is very very supportive of her mum & me (a breath of sanity, really)

I love my girlfriend very much, and her kids too. We need some serious help, and quick - please.

He is going to see his dad tomorrow night (for the first time in 6 months) and will no doubt tell him just how bad his mum is - this morning he was going to go school and tell everyone that his mum had been pissed all weekend (she had 1 bottle of wine on sat night) and that we had spent all weekend in bed shagging (we didn't obviously - I played with him on my xbox and we took the dogs out for a walk in the countryside - he didn't like that)

When his dad hears this, he will give my g/f a whole world of sh*t. I will be there - just in case - and I'm not a physical or violent man, but I will fight him if he starts on my girl.

How do I/we sort this? How can we get through to him, and stop this behaviour/attitude?

Sorry if that's all a bit disjointed, we are both stressed to hell - we have both been through some really sh*tty times these past few years and really need the happiness we have found together. I'm 42 with 2 teenagers (my youngest has spent half his life in hospital) and my g/f is 37 to give you some context.

Thanks for reading, all useful advice/thoughts is welcome.

nuts deep in me

This has made my Tuesday.

"but I'm not going to walk away from the love of my life"

he's repeatng everything his father has spouted against his mother.

he's angry with you for fucking his mum. he wants her to himself.

he's confused about who is the bad guy in all of this - he KNOWS his dad was violent but it's his MUM'S situation that's making him feel bad right now. Children need to have a goodie and a baddy.

He needs to know that he is loved, but also that you as the adults in his life WILL continue to treat him like he is 10 years old until he is 11, and then you will treat him like he is 11 etc. he cannot fast forward to being an adult with an adult entitlement to run the household according to his whims.

imagine your partner decided to move a stranger into your house,that you were expected to get on with.This is what it is like for this little boy.fgs,love of your life.Your children are the most important loves of your life.Grow up.

Poor kid [hsad] He's grown up in a household where he's been abused and seen his mother been abused. It's no wonder he behaves the way he does, to him that's normal behaviour.

You are rushing this relationship too much. Back off and let your g/f deal with her son, be there to listen to her but don't try to interfere in any way.

I think your g/f needs to see her gp and ask for some counselling for her son and also for the whole family.

Good advice,chaoticangel;you should be a psychiatrist.

Is it me or has Zebedee wandered off in disgust by now..?

If not, I second, third, tenth etc what most posters have been saying on here-(esp. LilMs)

Your perspective is totally warped Zebedee. You have been in this situation for a matter of weeks, and seem to have got you feet under the table really quickly-except that everyone in the scenario is not behaving as you think they ought.
How inconvenient.

I have some experience of this situation from the child's perspective in that my mum married within a year of my dad leaving and I got 3 extra siblings.

It was really hard, and completely misguided of my mum to move in with a guy 6 months after meeting him.

He was a stranger to me. He was big, and loud, and he frightened me. I had nightmares.
My oldest step sib was violent and bullying towards me. My mum had no time for me. Etc etc.

I am an adult now, but I would say it took until my twenties to be ok with my step dad, and even now I can't understand what they were thinking rushing into it like that.

As an adult YOU have to be the rational one. If you back off and take things WAY slower, it won't affect you that much in the long run.
If you carry on the way you are doing, it will affect these kids for ever.
You sound really angry with this boy. You can't be. His reaction is totally understandable.
It is up to his mother to find a way to re-connect with him. To make him feel safe. To instill in him respect for her and his sisters.
You have NOTHING to do with this.
Oh, and to even THINK about sending him to live with his abusive father (not your decision though is it?) is just utterly cruel.
Sorry if that is not what you want to hear, but I am not wrong.

Agree you are moving too fast. The last thing this boy needs is to be let down again.

I think your GF should get him some professional help, A qualified psychiatrist, not the best guesses of Yourself or MN.

I cannot understand why this boy is still in contact with his father let alone any consideration of them living together.

Oh dear

Firstly Zebedee I commend you for being interested enough in these children to take the time to post here. I do think you are genuinely asking for help in what is an extremely difficult situation for everyone.

I understand where you are "coming from", but it is more important that you see things through this little boy's eyes. Can you try and imagine yourself at that age, in his situation? Imagine how scared and out of control you would feel?

You have the potential to be a fantastic, stabilising influence in this child's life- the rest of your lives if your gf really is your soulmate. So please read the advice again - try to ignore the angry tone in some of them (although I do understand posters' desire to fiercely "protect" this little boy)

I do believe you & your gf want to do the best by the children - please look again calmly at some of the advice given, and try to understand that posters are maybe able to see the situation with a bit more dispassion than you.

I hope you are still here zebedee. Will you reconsider?

Poor little boy. He is incredibly mixed up and angry. I think he and his mother need some professional input - family therapy for instance, and time spent together - not your "amateur psychoanalysis"

I have a ten year old boy and you say you have teenagers yourself. Can you not remember what a 10 year old is like? He is not doing this to make life difficult for you. I'm afraid you sound egocentric :

the older daughter is "the voice of sanity ... supportive of her mum and me"

and:

"we really need the happiness we have found together"

Zebedee - I know you are not happy with the advice on here, but imo your gf needs to see her gp asap, explain the situation and take advice from family therapy, agree with Jamie.

If you love your gf she comes as a package with her dc and as others have said attenting to their needs first is the way forward.

That said, I hope things go well for you long term in becoming their step-dad.

Problem 10yr old boy?
Poor lad

"he loves his mum (and me, tbh)"
do you mean you also love his mum, or that her DS loves you?

"we really need the happiness we have found together"

yes JLC, that was a phrase that stuck in my craw too.

(name adjusted, that Axe was getting heavy)

he's not been back then... quelle surprise

I love you a little bit SGM.

I love her a lot [hgrin]

I

ARF

Thanks (I think) for all your considered replies...

didn't really want to bump this and bring to attention again, but I figured an update would be in order, for those that are genuinely interested, rather than those who just want to troll or flame..

There were 1 or 2 serious replies in there that warranted further discussion - the rest didn't scare me away (it's the internet, it was only to be expected) I've just been busy dealing with this and other stuff.

I won't mention any names, but thanks to those who made sense - and to the rest, I would respectfully say that you totally missed the point - perhaps you should all take your own advice and consider this from someone else's point of view?

First off - I am not cock-centric - far from it, I'll think you would find if you actually knew me - or bothered to ask for more information before judging - shame on you.

Second - my g/f (yes, the love of my life, after 4 months, suck it up - maybe you should be so lucky) has 'trust issues' with authority, due to being let down in the past by 'professiona; services' - so counselling, gp help, etc etc is not an option.

believe me, I wish it were, and it was the first thing I suggested when I became aware of the problems.

Third - I labelled this thread 'problem child' because I/we have a problem with a child - no more, no less - he is a fantastic kid, but we have a problem we need help with. The title and tone were carefully considered to gather attention and responses - in hindsight, maybe both could and should have been worded a little differently. My fault, but I'll just ignore the bullshit.

Fourth - The thought (and it is only that, not a serious consideration) about the child going to live with his abusive father is/was only an option given the alternative - taken into care, social services etc. Those options were only even thought of because the situation was/is completely intolerable. It could not continue the way it was, day in, day out.

Before you judge (or comment) put yourself in the place whereby the ONLY OPTION is to hand your child over to someone else. That is how bad it was.

Fifth - I said it before, I'll say it again - the fact that he heard us having sex IS NOT THE ISSUE - it served as a dramatic example of his behaviour.

My kids coped with much much worse behaviour from their mum - and they are fine. (before you judge again, she is a social worker and has very high moral standards - but things happen. You know nothing about the circumstance, either accept what I say, or don't comment)

I am well aware of his issues, and where they stem from - reread my original post.

My question was - what is the best way to deal with this?

Given that the situation between me and my g/f is NOT going to change - we love each other, will spend the rest of our lives with each other, spending 3 nights a week at her house is NOT out of order (did you consider that the other 4 evenings are spent at my house, with my kids? but she and her kids don't stay over at mine, because I don't have enough room)

We built up to 3 nights a week steadily, we bonded with each others kids sensibly and slowly (my kids love my g/f, and her kids love me - and just as I love my g/f, I love her kids too, just the same way as she loves mine - shame on you to all those who thought otherwise)

After 4 months I am not a replacement father to the kids (yet? I hope to be, to some extent, without displacing their biological father) - I know my place, and realised drom day 1 that what my g/f's kids needed is a stable and loving background (my g/f too, all things considered.)

I fully intend to provide that to my g/f and her kids - that is/was never in question - the question is, given all that, what do I/we do right now to alleviate the situation?

Over the last couple of weeks things have been a lot better - I have shown him that his anger is not responded to, that bad behaviour only hurts him, no one else - but undoing his life patterns of 10 years is hard work, and will take a whole lot more.

I have taught my g/f techniques on how to deal with his tantrums in a sane and sensible manner - it all seems to be working, things are a lot calmer than they used to be, but we still have a long way to go (when I am not there, he will still verbally abuse his mum - at least now its not physical, we've come a long way)

And in case any fundies get on my case - he is not more controlled when I am around out of fear - I have never ever given him any opportunity to fear me, and I never will oppress him in that manner - it's more that he has a certain earned respect for me (he does love me, his actions show that, just as my actions show that I love him) but that he knows he can control his mum.

This attitude - that of a 10 year old boy being able to control his mum (originally because his mum feels guilty about past events obviously) - is the one that needs to change, he needs to relearn respect for his mum, stop thinking of himself as the man of the house (which I am not, btw - I am his mums partner, not his dad) and essentially be a child, not a 10 year old adult.

The means to do this I/we have learned elsewhere - and will be applied in the context of a loving, caring relationship.

It's working so far - brilliantly - and it's only been a couple of weeks.

So.

Apart from 1 or 2 decent posts in this thread you are all scary people I would not let near my kids, let alone listen to over an anonymous forum.

If you still don't get it, let me say that if you met me in real life, you would get my story and agree with me/be sobbing on my shoulder within 5 minutes.

If you still feel the need to flame me, then don't bother - I'm not going to check this thread again - serious replies can be sent to my pm - I'll delete this account in a month or so.

Really - as an outsider, coming in with a serious question - wholeheartedly asking for advice - you lot should be ashamed of yourselves. You didn't 'get' the story (apart from 1 or 2 - thanks to you guys) so why didn't you ask before casting judgement??

Seriously - ask first, judge later. You are sad, horrible, twisted people. (I would make a remark about my profession here, just to enforce my feelings - but professional judgement prevails.)

Goodbye.

Hi Zebedee. Hope you haven't completely disappeared.

The thing that strikes me is your desire to fix this.

It probably can be fixed, but not I think by some simple action or strategy that will have everything going swimmingly within a couple of months. This child sounds like he has been traumatised over a number of years, and the road back may take a number of years too. Possibly the poor kid won't ever find his way back to a world of kindness and love. In addition your partner has also been traumatised to the extent that she is shutting off potential avenues of support.

I am not a psychologist, psychiatrist or have any particular experience in these fields, am just a Mum with a reasonable intellect who knows and works with people pretty well, so judge what I suggest on those terms:

This boy needs first of all unconditional love. I think he is playing a game of "look how bad I can be, do you still love me now?" and as with every kid who is showboating bad behaviour for attention you have to reject the behaviour with as little attention as possible and love the child as obviously as you can for who they are, not what they do. You may have to sustain the energy to do this for years before it bears fruit. You may not see changes week on week, but gradual enough that you notice a difference year on year. You will have to continue, therefore, in the face of apparent non-response much of the time. You and your partner have to come to terms with this and be strong for him.

Secondly you have to continue supporting your partner enough that she feels strong enough to enlist the support of both her GP and your local CAMHS service. I think the boy needs this. His distress and need for this help should outweigh her reluctance in accessing it. You are probably the means of providing her with the strength to see this.

It might seem hard, it might seem a long struggle, but even at its worst it is an episode in everyone else's life, but potentially this child's whole future. So it's worth the effort.

Good luck.