More campaigning: this time on chemicals & the environment

[SenoraPostrophe]

Anyone who cares about having a clean environment free of toxic chemicals to live in, please sign this

wwf petition

More info (copied and pasted from an email they sent me): As a result of the poor regulation of the chemicals industry, there is not one person, or animal, on Earth that has not been exposed to a cocktail of man-made chemicals - from a polar bear in the Arctic, to a tree-frog in the tropical rainforest, to a new born baby in Britain.

Within the next five months the EU, led by the UK Government, will decide how effective the new chemicals regulation (known as REACH) will be at protecting the environment and the health of our children and wildlife for generations to come.

Please join WWF in asking the Prime Minister to persuade other European politicians to stop exposing us and our environment to toxic chemicals.

LDS = Latter Day Saints, the preferred name for Mormons.

Highly untrustworthy - yes, I'd say so.

no im not biased actually i like their products but i dont suscribe tio the cult of neways or there religion
i would rather have them round my house than proctor and gamble ici or galaxo though

i dont like mormons banging on my door though (so smarmy)(and so masculine)
guess ill have to find a new god of cleaning

I have a good friend who used to do R&D for Procter & Gamble and she says that she couldn't move without getting her formulas approved by their environmental division, human safety folks etc. They were so cautious that lots of good products took years to get to market, if ever. Even once the formula was approved, every word that was written on the package or put in adverts was scrutinised by lots of people.

She says that they are so incredibly squeaky clean, it was unbelievable.

I think these are good questions in case you have answers to them AmeriScot

if I can briefly interrupt your chat with Lunachic (Hi LC )

so how come you can still buy PVC baby bottles?

how come spillages still happen so often?

how come some household cleaning products still contain phosphates?

when was the last time research showing up dangerous effects of a product was published by one of the chemical companies? publically funded research seems to come up with new warnings quite often.

Dh was just telling me that he read today of a man here in Switzerland who washed a machine in his garage, the cleaning fluid he used went down the drain and it killed 30 fish.

This I think asks the question, ´How extensive does regulation have to become? Do we regulate everyone or concentrate that regulation at the major players in the industry? Too many elasta plasts in too many places also can create loopholes and lack of scrutiny when not directed from the top down. Just a thought. But perhaps worthy of discussion?

Have you signed the petition yet AmeriScot?

Thats because Procter & Gamble are the big brother mega corporation and have environmental watch dogs / animal rights activists eyeing their every move.!!

I work for a chemical place and anything we intend to manufacture has to go through our hazards section, our medical centre and local regulatory bodies (independent to industry). We have very little waste that can get access to the river system due to segrgated waste streams and containment tanks. We treat waste for other companies using a biomass and it's tested for contaminant levels before being disposed of.
Spillages happen usually down to human error or integrity of materials of construction.
The cleaning product that killed 30 fish may not have been something the man should have had in the first place. He may have aquired it from his work or a friend.

I can safely say that I have never bought a PVC baby bottle .

How come spillages happen so often? Ummmm, because people are careless and don't follow the rules, perhaps?

Why are there phosphates? Because they work, I'd guess, and allow you to use smaller amounts of product and less energy to achieve the desired results. As I understand it, there isn't an alternative at the moment for dishwashers, although I'm sure that the major manufacturers are working on this, but there is a consumer choice in this country to use either phosphate or zeolite containing products. No one is telling you which one to choose.

I'm not a walking encyclopaedia, but one chemical that springs to mind is D4-cyclomethicone. It was actually Dow Corning, the manufacturing, that discovered problems with this raw. It was used widely by many companies big and small.

As for regulation, it gets tighter or slacker according to our scientific knowledge and growing ability to analyse.

Now, do you have any answers to these questions?

So are you saying that Procter & Gamble's products are kosher - whether by company ethos or from being in the limelight.

As MN ´expert´ as such representing a chemical company I thought it only polite to let you go first. I was after all eating my dinner at the time of the post

I was not aware that PVC baby bottles were manufactured. This needs to be changed, because, a) microwaves - has there not been recently information published regarding the carcinogenic effects of heating plastic in MW´s? b) if babies aren´t allowed to play with PVC why is it okay from them to suck it - same difference. Also a big c) why are dogs toys still made from PVC

Why spillages? Well humans are infallable which is a good teacher. By ensuring that chemical industries cannot sell us products that have the potential to maim or kill, then way we can be in less trouble when infallable, regulate chemical usage and protect our environment all in one go.

Phosphates... pass except to say I saw dish wash lozenges for sale at the health shop... will investigate next time I am at shop. perhaps they don´t contain phosphates?

I am no cover to cover know it all either... did work for the horticultural industry in NZ and was the IFP person in charge of monitoring the bugs in the orchards. Did not enjoy being around all the sprays - on tree nor in air. Thats my claim to fame anyhow!

I am no fan of P&G, but think your query about that was for skeptic.

I didn't know that I was representing a chemical company...I'm just a SAHM!

I have no point of view on the PVC thing. I know that most opaque consumer packages are polyethylene and on moving to that, there are some properties of PVC that have been lost. It's all a trade off and it's important to recognise that. I thought the big negative for PVC was the air emissions on manufacture - I don't have any knowledge about problems associated with using it in the microwave. Are you saying that chemicals have been proven to leach out of the plastic into the food?

I only partially agree to the concept of saving consumers from themselves, though, but I do believe that everyone should be given the information to make an informed choice.

True AmeriScot, you have said you work for a chemical company. But have you? If so, may I ask, what was your ´role´in the company?

SAHM are powerful beings and can sign petitions and become knowledgeable when open to it, of many thing in the world of MN!

I have a degree in Chemical Engineering, have worked for a company providing environmental services (to clean up chemical contamination!), and have worked as an R&D manager for a major consumer products company.

But now, I go out to lunch, get an au pair to do my cleaning and am an aspiring supply teacher!

You have NOT said that should read

?????

OK, reread and understand now

Yes messages on bottles are part and parcel of responsbility and I like the instructions, especially when badly written english from Japan

All well and good for people to make an informed choice, but given the range of care, thought or regard for chemical use in the general population, I believe without being labelled an eco-nazi that when more environmentally alternatives exist, why tout and supply the commercial marketing avenue of faster, cleaner, better when the product may not be safely researched? There are alot of people who buy for price and not on ethics (for themselves or others). It can stereotype the marketplace and people lose sight of informed choice.

I know from living in farming communities in NZ that overexposure to chemical useage is not just physically dangerous, but breeds a nonchalance and no worries mate mentality.

Thats why organisations like WWF exist they are there to help the people help themselves, and also to protect all creatures. And I am sure they hope to educate people to informed choice decision making.

thats a change of profession! I guess you teach supply science?

hello papillion
i think that some of the problem is that even the approved chemicals arent alawys safe
and id def trust neways before procter and gamble (even if they are mormons !)
at least they are thinking along the right lines

due to lack of signing a new thread for such activities like signing this petition as been created. I am trying to give the ´pm´posters a leg up

here

I hear you lunachic - it used to be okay to stand on a trailer and spray organophosphates out of a hose at your fruit trees. It was regulation and we live and learn, unfortunately in some cases.

mmmmm
DDT was legal once too

Ugh, Luna. I've just had DH, who is a skin care expert, look over Newways skin products and he was fairly mistified by them. They are definitely not especially environmentally friendly, nor are they particularly good for the skin.

You are foolin' yourself!

i have already said i am prepared to mistrust them
i use clarins skincare anyway not sure of ingredients but it suits my skin and isnt animal tested
what does yopur dh think of sls and pg