Why do I struggle with the thought of having a cleaner?

[Flightattendant]

I deliberately didn't put this in aibu as I know it could get heated if I did...I don't want that to happen.

But for a while I have been feeling socially and perhaps ethically uncomfortable with the idea of people having their house cleaned by someone else.

I would really appreciate a discussion about this from all angles, because part of me feels I must be being ridiculous, there are good reasons for this situation etc but another part finds it quite objectionable...

I know several people who do employ a cleaner, and know that they also struggle with the concept in different ways - and have also taken in this kind of work for a friend of the family so have seen it from both sides in a sense...

but I have never, and would never, want someone (especially a similar-aged person) to come into my home and do the kind of jobs I don't particularly enjoy, for whatever reason - unless I was physically incapable of maintaining a basic standard of hygiene myself.

Can anyone help me sort this out in my head before I go all communist about it please and start to rant at strangers

What's the difference between paying for someone to care for your children and paying for a cleaner? Or do you object to both?
Both enable me to get some work done. I still do the vast majority of both (childcare and cleaning) myself and enjoy them (yes, even cleaning) but I don't have the time to do all of it to my own high standards, particularly the cleaning, and especially if I want to work as well.

What difference does the age of the cleaner make?

This is what I struggle with Staranise, I don't know why I find it uncomfortable...was hoping someone could explain that for me, which is probably a bit lazy but I don't trust my own prejudices.

(I also don't trust my own cleaning and generally live in a hovel anyway, if that is at all relevant)

Sorry, I really don't mean to offend anyone. I just want to thrash it out and get a better perspective.

I think the similar age thing is like, it's as though someone my age is no less or more able to clean than I am...so I ought to do my own...and who cleans for them? It bothers me, and it probably shouldn't.

I don't think it is unethical to have a cleaner. Provided, of course, that you pay the right wage and that there is no exploitation. There are so many other categories of workers that can be exploited!!!

One of my dearest friend in England used to clean in other people's houses. She used the money to pay for a course and she is now a yoga teacher.

Yes Franca I agree about the right wage...but tbh I suppose the biggest thing about it is the general unpleasantness of it as opposed to something like childcare (though personally would rather clean than do that)

So many people don't like cleaning, that's why I wouldn't feel right paying someone else to do it - if it was a job I (but particularly THEY) enjoyed it would be Ok.

I daresay some cleaners really enjoy it - but for those who don't,

I dunno. I see the cleaners at our hospital every day (we live near it) and think how miserable they look. But I guess there's no easy answer to that as doctors and nurses have too much else to do, to clean everything as well. And I suppose that could equally apply to people who work and have no time to clean their houses.

I really am finding this very confusing.

It probably depends on your circumstances. When it was just me and DH I didn't feel the need for a cleaner. Now I have three v small children, work part-time, the mess is enormous and I don't have time to do it all. If there were 30 hours in the day I wouldn't have a cleaner but there aren't.

Morally, where's the problem, provided you treat your cleaner fairly?

It sounds like you think you would be lazy if you had a cleaner - well, that's really a matter for you and your self-respect...

Oh, I struggle with this as well. And I agree, it is probably because it's a job I just don't want to do but is really part and parcel of being and ault and owning a home. I need to earn money therefore I can reconcile paying for childcare but I struggle with employing a cleaner.

I get where you are coming from I think.

We had a cleaner for about 3 months when DS1 was a baby and I hated it.

From a purely practical point of view I didn't like having to tidy up just because the cleaner was coming round.

I didn't like having somebody in my home (espcially as DS1 was tiny and constantly feeding so I locked myself in one room which they never did). I still don't like the idea even though I don't have to be home.

I disliked the idea of having to tell them if they fell short on what we wanted to do.

I also get why you don't want somebody your age doing it - I think it is the idea that if they can clean other people's homes and presumably their own then I should have been able to too. They were my peers after all.

BUT on the other hand I do think if they are happy to do this for a living then I shouldn't feel bad on their behalf. They aren't being exploited. They were getting a decent wage and presumably they take some pride for their work. My prejudices about it not being something I would want to do don't really matter.

I can't see that I will ever employ somebody again. It just makes me uncomfortable.

I have a bigger problem with childcare (paying someone to do something that I really do see as my job and I know I can do better).

Whether or not they enjoy the job is irrelevant up to a certain extent. There are plenty of people who hate their work, feel trapped, unable to change - should they not be employed either?

Well, yes, for me in my circumstances it definitely would be lazy.

I would feel like Henry the 8th getting someone to blow his nose for him.

But if I worked outside the home, and had 3 children instead of two I might have a different perspective.

Some of my best friends have had cleaners and they work full time, have several kids, etc - and they still feel/felt weird, guilty, uncomfortable about it.

That's strange to me - it seems as though there is possibly something about it that can feel odd to many of us.

My experience is that I work part time. I am self-employed and had the opportunity to increase my hours, and hence my income. I was concerned that doing this would mean that we, as a family, would spend even more time each weekend cleaning and tidying. At the same time I knew of a woman, a little younger than me, who was looking for a cleaning job, to earn some pin money whilst her DC are young.
I pay her well, and she does a fantastic job. Before she started we discussed exactly what chores she would/n't do. So she is happy to do what I consider the horrible jobs - like cleaning the bathrooms. BUT she won't do any ironing - which I quite enjoy doing.
I don't see that as exploiting her, we are in a win/win situation. She earns some extra money doing something she enjoys (yes I know that sounds odd but she jokes that she has slight OCD and loves coming to my house and leaving everything tidy). I am able to work more hours at a job I enjoy, and both our families benefit.(hers with more cash, mine with more time).
I think we all have boundaries we are not willing to cross, mine are different and not relevant to this discussion, but a good cleaner is wonderful

Thankyou for the replies and I'm glad I'm not alone (well apart from friends!)

I agree that some may enjoy it and be paid well and take pride in it. That's fair enough but I would still feel odd not tidying my own dirty laundry, washing my own dishes...

Staranise I think that if someone feels trapped in a job they can't abide, then they ought to be free to do something else - I never think doing a job you hate is a good thing, for anyone concerned, whether it is cleaning or admin or running the country.

Perhaps that's part of my argument.

I used to take in ironing for a family friend and much as I liked her and enjoyed the ironing (freakish I know) I still know she felt weird about it, and so did I.

What gets me most I think is the idea that there is a hierarchy...a personal one, between oneself and ones cleaner, and having that 'superior' role ie directing them at their job, when it is just for you...rather than in a larger organisation.

The feeling of being someone's employer would do me in. That's probably my own issues though as previously suggested.

I used to struggle with the idea of having a cleaner.
I eventually gave in ad my cleaner now it lovely. Shes a mum with two children at primary who wants to be a bit independent without having to worry about childcare. I completely understand those pressures so I'm actually glad I can help her in this way.
I let her fill the hours how she sees fit (shes a hard worker) and am flexible about start and finish times. I tend to do laundry while she cleans and we natter. I used to feel uncomfortable especially sat watching tv while feeding baby as she cleaned but shes put me at ease

Of course everyone should enjoy their job but then I don't think you can assume that all cleaners are unhappy.

FWIW, I work from home and my cleaner and I work around each other.

Everyone has their own boundaries - I would never expect anyone to do my laundry or even iron as I thionk it's quicker and easier to do those sorts of jobs myself. But I find eg, washing floors impossible while also looking after the children and, when I do have paid childcare, I have to use that time to do my own work.

Just to offer another perspective - my (middle age, middle class) mum set herself up as a cleaner a decade ago, and worked doing it for a year. She charged £15 ph and had to turn away work, because she was so fast and thorough! (This was in a smart area.) She did it to fund a particular "want" she had at the time, and agreed with my dad that all the money she got from it would be hers solely to spend as she wanted (unlike his income)! She earned a higher hourly amount than she could doing anything else, and could always be at home when my youngest sibling needed her after school. She stopped when she raised the money she wanted.

i worked as a cleaner for about 6 years and never earned more than £5 an hour .I had 6 jobs at one time but had to cut down as i was exhausted(Scotland). I stopped about 4 years ago as i found i could earn much more from Ebay and i did not have to get down on my knees scrubbing for it . i wouldnt say i liked it or dislkied it . I did get a great feeling of satisfacion leaving a house or office immaculate and was very trustworthy. If i thought i could get £15 an hour i would do it again though

you would get more than that now , minimum wage is 5.80

I am toying with the idea of a cleaner just now, pregnant with no4 and have pretty bad SPD, DP has been doing most of the vacuuming the past few weeks as I cannot manage it, I do the other less physical jobs but am struggling with the ironing.

The idea is a bit strange to me to pay someone else to clean up after us but at the same time I am struggling to do it myself and I am trying to think if I am not cleaning I can spend more time with the DC.

I've always felt the same way as you do Flight- it smacks of Lady Muck to me. But it's increasingly common, so perhaps I am just out of step.

I would rather be a cleaner than do hundreds of other jobs - including child minding, nursing, shop assistant, tele sales, chef, waitress, barmaid. Honestly, the list is very long.

Forget about the fact that you don't like doing it. Some people do.

Elevate the process of cleaning in your mind to worthwhile high status work and you will begin to see the role of cleaner in a better light.

We have a cleaner, and have done for eight years, off and on.

She is a lovely lady in her fifties and cleans people's houses because she can fit it in around also looking after her grandsons after school or during the holidays. She cleans for six different families throughout the week and charges £8 an hour.

She comes to me for 4 hours once a week and I also pay her for an hour of travelling because we have moved 30 minutes away from where she lives (and where we lived when she started).

We always have a chat when she gets here, and I always make her a coffee on arrival and whilst she is here.

I dont ask her to do anything I wouldnt, and I do make sure the place is tidy before she gets here. In fact I don't ask her to do anything, she does what she feels needs doing.

I also clean during the week and don't "leave it for X to do". My DCs also know that she is not there to tidy their rooms (which are a tip).

We have four bathrooms and her main job is to clean all of those and the kitchen.

Primarily because I work from home and just don't have time.

I see it as a win win situation for both of us and don't see it as either exploting her, or an excuse for us to be lazy.

I have spent most of today cleaning and Hoovering despite the fact she comes tommorrow morning.

I don't have a problem having a cleaner, she keeps me sane to be honest and that is definitely worth £40 a week.

I agree with bibbity - I've never understood why cleaning is viewed as the most menial of jobs. I pay my cleaner more than I pay my childminder per hour. It's not that I hate cleaning at all - it's that I work full time and often have to work once my DC are in bed and I don't have the time to do it. She doesn't do laundry or ironing and the loo is never revolting.

I've been a cleaner in the past and probably will be again. I'd much rather clean than look after children.

Oh and I've done commercial cleaning and private domestic cleaning - commercial cleaning is horrible, not least because people treat you like absolute shit. But I think that's related to the fact that people think cleaning so horribly menial - for some people who feel like that, it means that they feel uncomfortable about employing someone to clean but for a lot of people, it means they feel it's okay to treat cleaners as a sub-species.

Other peope you might not employ on the assumption that the work is (arguably) menial and you can do it yourself: childcarer, beautician, builder/decorator/handyman, gardener, supermarket delivery etc etc. People employ these sort of services because of their convenience, expertise and presumably because they can afford it.

I understand that some people feel uncomfortable managing someone else in their own home. In which case, don't employ a cleaner. But that's not an objection on moral grounds?

And no, I don't sit on MN all day while my cleaner Hoovers around me, I am actually meant to be working at the moment (while DH provides some free childcare )

I don't see being a cleaner as different to any other sort of job or paid occupation.

Someone has to do it - my cleaner is very happy at work. Goes around singing! I certainly don't view myself as any better than she is.

FLight Attendant, I feel the same as you and I am not entirely sure why.

I think if you are a grown up, you have to clean up after yourself, regardless of how busy you are and no way would I want someone else to clean my loo.

Friends I have that do have a cleaner are lovely employees and pay well, always make sure they get holidays, sick pay, etc, but I do feel very uncomfortable about it.

Different strokes and all that I guess? ANd plenty people do make an okay bit of money out of it, but no, it is not for me, barring infirmiry.

God knows, I probably do plenty of things they don't understand either.