Is racism acceptable in predominantly white areas then?

[beansprout]

Have just been to Lyme Regis for my holiday. Was utterly shocked to repeatedly see golliwogs for sale in toy shops and at craft fairs but the piece de resistance was surely being in a book shop and seeing a book called "The Little Black Sambo" for sale. This was a children's book, which somehow made it worse. I told the manager I was very offended by this but she was incredibly ignorant. She started off by saying "are you black?" (I'm not) so I explained that I don't have to be black to be offended by racism.

To cut a long story short she was adamant that the book was fine and I was the one being ignorant (?!). She was very defensive and absolutely refused to acknowledge what I was saying.

I was born and live in London. You just wouldn't see this stuff here but is it really normal in other areas? Am interested to know!!

Blu - it's upsetting me so I can only imagine how you must feel.
Shame on them.

Blu. my ds is yet to experience this. I dread the day he does.

I know.

I agree with Puddle, about the anti-PC debates, too.

God, how depressing. Both your stories are chilling, actually Blu. Good poin puddle; I do find it horribly easy to forget how much these attitudes still prevail. We have to avoid complacency.

blu. i am not in the habit of telling lies. i am truly sorry if in your life everyone you encounter is narrow minded and stupid, but to suggest i am lying because that is not the way my life is makes no sense. my family is not now, nor have we ever been racially discriminated against. i am very very very pleased about that. i am CHUFFED that my kids dont get sworn at or kicked, i love it that we dont get our windows put thru, i think its great that it is so not an issue in our life or in the lives of our friends and family that i honestly thought it was not a widespread problem - based on the fact that noone i know has any problems at all!! why are you saying that it cannot be the truth? it is the truth of my life. why on EARTH would i say that we dont get abuse if we actually do? and im not an idiot, i know when someone is being rude or offensive to me, so i would certainly be able to spot racism! why do you find it impossible to accept that there are people who dont have a problem? and cant you just say bloody lucky them instead of saying they must be lying or in denial??!!!

Mytwoenceworth, as I said in an earlier post, your first post didnt sound like your personal experience but more that you believed that racism wasnt an issue and people looked for ir when it wasnt there.
It's great that you've never experienced racism but it is simply not true to say that it is uncomon.

No one implied you were lying and you did make it clear later that you were refering to your own experience.

Take it personally if you must 2pw, but it seems hard work.

I didn't mean to say you were lying. If you haven't experienced it, you haven't and i'm very pleased for you. Very. And i do think things are getting better by the day.

Everyone I meet is not narrow-minded. The offensive few are, thankfully, the minority. i do not go through life looking for it - i am mellow, tolerant, broad-minded, optimistic about people and the world, i LIKE people, and my sense of humour is intact.

But I do see racism. i work in a v liberal environment, and a v mixed area - probably the ost multi-cultual in the U.K, but even so, i see and hear petty racism 9not windows put through) on a regular basis.

The people i accuse of being in denial are those who say ' i have a right to say what i like and if you call it offensive you're being over-sensitive and I'm not racist, i'm just telling this racist anecdote because it's funny, and if you don't like it is's because you have a problem, because racism no longer exists.'

Cloud cuckoo land.

See that documentary about Slaughterhouses last night? racism is alive and well in an abattoir near you!

I AM sorry if it sounded as if i thought you were lying - but as for the racism doesn't exist implication which has made an appearnace in this thread, and white people can play fast and loose with any image or definiation, or derogatory language about other people, I don't let it go past.

"racism as in abuse, fear, terror, discrimination - is bloody rare and is truly not all around us as some people would have you believe. lets not get paranoid and start seeing things that arent there"

Sadly these things are very common and some posters were making the point that pretending they are not isnt helpful.

"You see I don't believe this 'oh I never experience racism'"

i am the person who posted that my family dont experience racism and blu posted that she doesnt believe people who say this
i assumed that dont believe = think not telling the truth = lying

"I get furious with complacency and denial around racism, not ignorant stupid (or v badly brought up) individuals."

i dont experience it but it must be there so i am complacent and in denial about it

i just felt it referred to my posts. it certainly refers to my opinions as expressed on this thread and i feel like she is saying anyone who has these views is not being honest, which i am!!!!!!!

sorry blu, posts x - sounds like oversensitivity on my part here!!

I told dh about your post as we always think of where we live as the best place to bring up or kids but tbh i'm not sure now.

hercules - i do - should i say did, until reading this thread, believe, based on my own personal experience, that such things must be rare. since i seem to be the only person around here who doesnt get it, i can only say OH DEAR GOD! i truly had no idea!

"I get furious with complacency and denial around racism, not ignorant stupid (or v badly brought up) individuals."
yes I do get furious around people who simply deny that it exists because it does. You don't have to experience it to know it exists, you (i mean anyone - not you specifically) can read about it in the papers. Marina from this site went to court as the only person who had the guts to be be a witmness of a viscious racist beating-up on her bus.

Yes, I do get furious with people who deny that it is a real problem, or are complacent about it happening, or that other things (like language, imagery, rumours etc etc) affect the view of certain communities as equal human beings, because where does that lead people who are being beaten up or having their windows put through?

The US army deliberatley promoted the use of the word 'gooks' in vietman, because it made it easier for the troops to slaughter them. Language and vernacular imagery make a difference.

x posted with you: sorry 2pw!

Blu, how awful. Good posts.

no prob blu. my god, i can hear the 'arrgghhh' in your 'voice'!!! you know, i feel like im in this little bubble, my own little piece of the world is hunky-dory (well, i need more money and some sex wouldnt go unappreciated, but you know what i mean), but this thread has made me remember that there's a whole world beyond that. everything is ok with MY family, but that doesnt mean everything is ok - do you know what i mean? i dont even know how i feel right now, but im thinking of my kids and i am wondering, they are going to go out into this world one day, how is it going to be? i've got some weird feelings right now, i dont know how to describe. - i wish i could explain what i mean properly!!!!!!

LOL re your almost hunk-dory life, 2pw!

Yes sorry, my typing gets a bit awry when I get aereated

Did anyone see the reports of the policemen who worked at Heathrow immigration? They were bugged as part of an investigation into their racism and were heard, amoungst other vile racist stuff, to call flights from Jamaica 'Golly buses' - which I think neatly makes the point that:
a. racism in not incredibly rare (and when people working in immigration think like this, it is also dangerous)
and
b. Golly is not an innocuous word in the real world.

Also, 2pw, I know what you mean about the weird feeling, maybe.

It is unbearable to think about your kids facing this stuff.

There are different ways of preparing them to stand proud in the big bad world out there and different peple do it in different ways. I certainly wouldn't want to frighten the socks off DS and emphasis the nastier aspect of some ignorant minds, I just concentrate on giving him 100% self-esteem.

It wouldn't be my way, nor DP's but I can see a sense, for them, in the way that QoQ approaches it.

Aloha.

Bet they have been on countless 'Equality Courses', too.

The equal opp training course for the civil service has a pass mark of 80% Which presumably means you can be racist/sexist 20% of the time

Can I just add that I was lived in a village just outside oldham for 6 years and the racism there was really, really bad (unfortuantly on both sides).

My parents had to move in the end (during the riots) because their house was trashed and their car was stolen and burnt out. It was very frightening and there was a climate of intimidation. I hoped that it is better there now and there is more acceptance - but from the sounds of what you said custardo dh nan - it is very much the same.

theres a definate race divide emily05 thats for sure.