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Is racism acceptable in predominantly white areas then?

200 replies

beansprout · 02/07/2005 20:07

Have just been to Lyme Regis for my holiday. Was utterly shocked to repeatedly see golliwogs for sale in toy shops and at craft fairs but the piece de resistance was surely being in a book shop and seeing a book called "The Little Black Sambo" for sale. This was a children's book, which somehow made it worse. I told the manager I was very offended by this but she was incredibly ignorant. She started off by saying "are you black?" (I'm not) so I explained that I don't have to be black to be offended by racism.

To cut a long story short she was adamant that the book was fine and I was the one being ignorant (?!). She was very defensive and absolutely refused to acknowledge what I was saying.

I was born and live in London. You just wouldn't see this stuff here but is it really normal in other areas? Am interested to know!!

OP posts:

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Caribbeanqueen · 03/07/2005 19:05

Agree with mytwopenceworth aboutt how racism can sometimes be about interpretation and attitude. I used to work with 2 women - one used to look at everyone suspiciously and always believed that all white people were inherently racist, whether they gave any indication of this or not.

The other used to blame everyone on the fact she was not shite - failure at job interviews, the lot. She even tried to sue for racial discrimination when she didn't get a promotion once, but there was no evidence of it and she lost.

Maybe, just maybe, she wasn't right for the job, but I'm not sure that crossed her mind.

hercules · 03/07/2005 19:06

I am not imaginging the racism I see! Please, I am an intelligent person. Kids being called Nigger and chocolate marshmallow whilst being slapped about a bit is not open to different interpretations.

Caribbeanqueen · 03/07/2005 19:08

I'm not saying you are hercules. I'm just saying that it CAN be, and relating the experiences of 2 people I used to work with. That's all.

hercules · 03/07/2005 19:08

Sorry, now my post was an overreaction!

Enid · 03/07/2005 19:08

mytwopenceworth · 03/07/2005 19:19

sorry, didnt mean to offend, change that to sad that you see racism everywhere - see i thought that sounded like i was saying you are imagining things too! no win really!

i have never encountered such things as you have just described and hope to god i never do.

Tissy · 04/07/2005 08:46

Enid! I knew I'd heard the name Helen Bannerman before! Bring back Ant and Bee! They were fantastic- had everyone of those books. That kind of tweed trilby is still called a "kind dog" hat in our family

Tissy · 04/07/2005 08:49

enid, just been onto Ebay, and Ant and Bee were written by Angela Banner

hercules · 04/07/2005 20:52

I taught a lesson today to YEar 10 about poverty in Africa. The kids did not believe what they were seeing and insisted that as the kdis in the pictures had clean teeth, books and clothes they couldnt be really poor. The consensus was that they deserved it as they should be using contraceptions and if we were in trouble they wouldnt help us.
The discussion moved on to be very racial with the kids openly stating how they had been brought up and what they believed. They thought black people were inherently violent and most crime was caused by them. They accepted that what they were saying was racist but that being racist was okay especially seeing as their families felt the same.
Their experiences in our area was lots of gang fights between races.

I told them openly (something I've never done before) that I was upset by their views. They said they didnt intend to upset me but that I had no idea what it is like out there and they see and live it every day.

This has made me seriously rethink where I am going to raise my kids as they will be growing up in the area where I teach.

Gawd, what hope is there for the future?

HappyMumof2 · 04/07/2005 21:00

Message withdrawn

WideWebWitch · 04/07/2005 22:59

Hercules, I'm shocked and saddened, as I'm sure you were. So what's the answer? (genuine q)

Tortington · 04/07/2005 23:54

i think racism is acceptable in white areas. had a really really awfule xperience when i went back to oldham last month. now everyone who knows me will know that i will pull them if they are being out of order. but i was bombarded by it.

i gave my dh's nan a lift down south from oldham to see her daughter who lives in hastings. on the trip down she was talking about the nice indian family accross the street who have just moved in and they bring their new baby over to her and the huby brings home a curry from his work for her and how lovely they are. i dont know how this moved on but it went wrong and the convo went in the direction of "oh well they are all claiming benefits AND working" kind of thing.

now shes an old bird and i was trapped in a car with her for the next 5 hours- i dont know her that well ( enough but not well)so i bit my lip for an easy life ( shame on me but i did) she carrried on and on and so i finally said " i am no expert but i am not racist the way i see it- its just the same as XXXXX2

Blu · 05/07/2005 17:11

How did I miss this over the w/e?

Racism isn't an issue unless you look for it? Last bank Holiday DS was called 'chocolate face' by kids on a campsite, and told that 'chocolate faces can't be princes', and on a holiday in greece a couple of weeks ago, every time DP (who is Indian/mauritian) approached the bar at the little pool near our apartment, the group of hearty-likely-lad-40-something-men-in-footie-shirts who were on glued to the bar stools, ostentatiously broke into loud jokes about 'Ps' and N*s, very obviously for his 'benefit'.

I am not surprised to see gollies re-emerge in the new retro craze, but the above is the context in which I would not buy one for DS. They are based on a deliberatley stereotyped caricature of balck people - a long way from any balck dolls that might be sought out by nurseries and parents with an interest in inclusion.

My first conciousness about racism was because my Mum marched back to my brothers school with a copy of LBS that he had brought home, demanding that it be removed from the library! She also would not allow me to have thos little books of 'sunny smiles' - pictures of smiling but starving African children which you 'sold' in return for donations. She said if you wanted to give money, you shouldn't have to sell pictures of children, and it was exploitative of their imagery.

I remember Ant and Bee

dinosaur · 05/07/2005 17:14

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

bossykate · 05/07/2005 17:17

at hercules and at blu. very sad.

blufamily won't be going to that campsite again, i'm sure. where was it?

beansprout · 05/07/2005 17:23

Really sorry to hear about some of these experiences.
What I find difficult is the way people defend being offensive. If I tread on your foot and you tell me it hurts, then I remove my foot and stop hurting you. I don't tell you it isn't hurting.

I remember being 7 or 8 and friends at school explaining to me why Jim Davidson was offensive (this was in the 70s, giving my age away!) My response wasn't "no it isn't" but I wanted to understand why. I don't understand why people are just so put out when they are asked to consider the fact that they may cause harm to people.

Ant and Bee rule btw.

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Blu · 05/07/2005 17:23

Sussex - v near Battle - it was a rather ropey campsite - the kids were, I guess, from London and quite 'smart' - might even have spotted the odd Boden item amongst them.

I had hoped that DS would get to 2ndry school before anything like thathappened - but at least he didn't realise what they were saying, and carried on asserting that he could be a prince.

Blu · 05/07/2005 17:25

Spot on, Beansprout.

People seem to find it v easy to decide on behalf of others what they should or should not feel 'sensitive' about.

spacedonkey · 05/07/2005 17:26

bloody hell blu, that is appalling

bossykate · 05/07/2005 17:27

blu, i bet you were/are

puddle · 05/07/2005 17:32

Blu - that's appalling. I think sometimes it's easy to forget (for me for example hanging out with/ working with people who are all similar to me in views) that these attitudes are still so prevalent. That's one thing that makes me so cross in all these anti-PC debates - it's as though all the battles have been won and we don't need to bother about these issues.

Blu · 05/07/2005 17:33

BK: sort of. You see I don't believe this 'oh I never experience racism' because as far as I can see, it happens all the time. I wanted to have a go at the kids parents, but wasn't sure where they were.

The girls in the group were telling DS that he couldn't be a prince (he was wearing his Prince hat from Battle castle) because prices were tall and he was only little - and I was so proud of him for standing his ground and saying 'I can be a prince because I'm only a PRETEND prince', and getting the girls to join HIS game, that I thought 'when he does understand what those f*wits mean by chocolate face, he will more than be able to handle it!'

I get furious with complacency and denial around racism, not ignorant stupid (or v badly brought up) individuals.

beansprout · 05/07/2005 17:38

Blu - your ds is a prince, and tell him we said so!

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Blu · 05/07/2005 17:44

Beanie: aaah! Thank you.

It does make me tearful, thinking about it, tbh.

aloha · 05/07/2005 17:46

vile, vile people Blu

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